The American Religion -- Mormons Observing Lent?

Kolob is a star or planet described in Mormon scripture.

Reference to Kolob is found in the Book of Abraham.

Kolob as the inspiration for Kobol in Battlestar Galactica

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob

Figure	Joseph Smith Explanation^[52]	Explanation by non-Mormon and Mormon Egyptologists (quotes are from Deveria)^[25]^[43]^[53]
1	Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh.	"The spirit of the four elements (according to Champollion), or rather of the four winds, or the four cardinal points; the soul of the terrestrial world. This god is always represented with four rams' heads, and his image has certainly been altered here. — They have also evidently made a very clumsy attempt at copying the double human head of the god figured above, fig. 2, instead of the four rams' heads. The word Jah-oh-eh has nothing Egyptian in it; it resembles the Hebrew word [redacted] badly transcribed." (emphasis in original) The name hieroglyph above the central figure is Chnm-Re, the Egyptian "First Creator" god who organized everything out of the primordial chaos.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Abraham

They DO come around here sometimes, but I tell them I am perfectly willing to discuss the word of God, but leave the Book of Mormon at home, as I do not accept it as legitimate.

Neither do they; for hardly ANY Mormon 'doctrine' is found in it!

The D&C trumps ANYTHING in the BoM.

It was his opinion, that ole Joe Smith was a teller of tall tales, and wrote the book of Mormon, to sell and make some money.

Who needs opinion; when FACTS are available?

As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by the evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated, by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi, which was an account abridged from the plates of Lehi, by the hand of Mormon; which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again—and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over again, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated, which ye have retained; and behold ye shall publish it as the record of Nephi; and thus I will confound those who have altered my words. I will not suffer that they shall destroy my work; yea, I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil. Wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, I have, through his grace and mercy, accomplished that which he hath commanded me respecting this thing. I would also inform you that the plates of which hath been spoken, were found in the township of Manchester, Ontario county, New-York.
Joseph Smith

AUTHOR and PROPRIETOR!!!

i think you’ve got it a bit mixed up, as are a lot of other Freepers on this site who keep suggesting that mormons aren’t christian.

I 'suggest' nothing.

Your own chosen religion's LEADERS have cursed Christians and Christianity and I PROVE it with their quotes!

LDS wanted NOTHING to do with Christianity!

[#] We believe ...

...an AWFUL lot more than you let on to the uninitiated!

I will also say that the New Testament was written in common Greek.

Just say that 99.9% of the EXISTING manuscripts we have are in common Greek, and that you'd really like to see any EVIDENCE to the contrary.

I always serve the very best Kosher ham on Thanksgiving.

In our Bible study the other night the scripture mentioned the Urim and the Thummim used to divine God’s will. (In Judges iirc). And here I thought ol’ Joe came up with those names himself.

I should have known.

Yes, but do you also serve kosher shrimp cocktail at your Yom Kippur party?

Ping

Placemarker!

I always serve the very best Kosher ham on Thanksgiving.

Please prepare the finest Mormon Kosher ham for us on April 2 as we celebrate in Kanab Utah. I wonder who the special guest musician might be.

'Son of God' was presented in Scripture as a metaphor that could be understood. If the three 'person' Trinity is examined however, it is NOT supported in Scripture - it is a fabrication of a Catholic council.

The infinite cannot be divided - if it is, the result will no longer be infinite. There cannot be more than one infinite or everything. From Swedenborg: God's Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence do not come within the scope of the human understanding because God's Omnipotence is infinite power, God's Omniscience is infinite wisdom, and Omnipresence is infinite presence in all the things that have gone forth and that do go forth from Him; and indeed the Infinite Divine does not come within the scope of a finite understanding.

As for Scripture, have you looked at Isaiah on this?

Isaiah 25:9 And it will be said in that day:
“Behold, this is our God;
We have waited for Him, and He will save us.
This is the Lord [Jehovah];
We have waited for Him;
We will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.”

Does Jehovah not mean 'The Father?

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.4 Every valley shall be exalted And every mountain and hill brought low; The crooked places shall be made straight And the rough places smooth; 5 The glory of the Lord shall be revealed, And all flesh shall see it together; For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

Same thing: Jehovah is the Lord the Father.

You say Scripture teaches - where?

Paul teaches in Colossians 3:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

'Godhead' is Godhood or Godness.

In other words, ALL Divinity is present within Jesus Christ.

For a complete Bible Study on this, see 12/3/14 The Son of God

From Swedenborg:???

Nuff said.

He's a false teacher.

It doesn't matter what he said. It matters what Scripture says.

I also quoted Scripture.

As for the Swedenborg quote, can YOU understand the infinite Divine? Is not what I quoted a true statement?

They also like CS Lewis ... they have mucho in common Rome

The infinite cannot be divided - if it is, the result will no longer be infinite.

The Godhead is undivided in substance, but divided in person. This is the explicit teaching of the scripture, such as John 1:1 where it says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Thus the Word is both separate ("with God") and united ("was God"). These are not two gods, but two persons (three with the Holy Spirit) who are but one God.

From Swedenborg: God's Omnipotence, Omniscience, and Omnipresence

Speaking of omnipotence, Christ is called "almighty" in Revelation. There cannot be two almighties (a father and a son separate almighty), but only one Almighty. Thus these three (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are one.

Rev_1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Does Jehovah not mean 'The Father?

Jehovah means "self-existent one", IOW, one who is not created.

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 'Godhead' is Godhood or Godness. In other words, ALL Divinity is present within Jesus Christ.

Yes, indeed. This proves his divinity, not His created status.

DaveMSmith...

Swedenborg is a cult. Let’s start there. This casts your opinions as posted under suspicion form the getgo.

After that, what you wrote falls far short of Scripture.

You wrote, “... a fabrication of a Catholic council.”

Yet we do not need a Catholic council today to examine Scripture and see that Christ has every attribute of God. We see what He claimed for Himself. We see what Scripture teaches. This is the joy of having God’s Word to examine now.

You wrote, “the infinite cannot be divided.”

No Christian teaches that the Godhead is divided ever.

You wrote, “There cannot be more than one infinite or everything.”

No Christian teaches that more than ONE God exists.

I’m afraid you’ve accepted the cultic Swede views friend.

Christ awaits you now. The real One. The Christ who is fully God. The Christ who died for the sins of everyone - you included.

but divided in person

Person here from that Catholic creed is translated from persona which can mean some sort of mask. For me, Jehovah being the Lord Jesus' soul and the Holy spirit being the Lord's proceeding (action) makes a whole lot more sense. We are in the image and likeness of God. I can relate to that.

Isaiah 49:11 For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another. God’s Ancient Plan to Redeem Israel 12 “Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.

From the Bible Study in the original post, it is explained how the infinite and finite coexisted within Jesus up until his death and Glorification (whereby he became fully infinite and un-created - 'One with the Father', but He also claims that during His lifetime, in Scripture). That's what makes sense to me.

As an aside, in the Bible: Jehovah means the Lord in respect to Divine good, while God means the Lord in respect to Divine truth.

A recent article on this is at: The true one-ness of the Trinity

And here I thought ol’ Joe came up with those names himself.

Nah; he borrowed most everything in the BoM from the bible.

That's why folks can be tricked into thinking it is plausible.

Only the names have been changed...

Here is how Joe USED the U&T...

...with his face stuck in a hat.

"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)

Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.