Posted on 02/20/2015 2:37:38 AM PST by Repent and Believe
From the Martyrology today we have: "At Damascus, [in the year 743,] holy Peter Mavimeno. Some Arabs came to see him while he was ill, and to them he said, " Whoever does not embrace the Catholic Christian religion will be damned, as your false prophet Mohammed is," whereupon they killed him."
What for? The guy said nothing about faith in Jesus Christ. Mormons claim a "Christian religion" as well.
As you supposedly worship the Lord who touched lepers and washed feet and died for us filthy rotten sinners. And 5 times exhorts to "Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss," (1 Thessalonians 5:26; cf. Rm. 16:16; 2Co 13:12; 1Th 5:26; 1Pe 5:14) as the prodigal's father did to his son's neck and Paul's brethren "fell on Paul's neck, and kissed him." (Acts 20:38)
Now i will admit that as a "Yankee" i have a hard time with that, and never have with a man, even if Russians/Italians etc. don't, but the Christian assembly should at least include giving each other the right hand of fellowship. (Gal. 2:9) And which also is to include prayer meetings in which all men may be able to share something edifying with the body. (1Cor. 14:31) But you first must become truly born again with its profound changes in heart and life to want that over watching a static sterile ritual.
I claimed nothing other than that what people were stating as true of the church was whatever they or someone they want to believe say it iOS
I said only that when people cite the Catholic Church teachings that they are wrong if it comes from anything but catechetical teachings.
Get off my case with your illogical unfounded catholic bashing
You have to understand that Iscool has one mode of argumentation: He/she/it dreams up an ignoble motive for anything any Catholic has reportedly said or done.
Everything any priest has ever said on any topic was motivated by 1) greed, or 2) the desire to molest little boys.
Having pointed out this obvious truth, Iscool sits back and enjoys the warm glow of victory.
Thanks for your judgements.
Place your bets!!!
Luke 9
46 Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.
47 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him,
48 And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.
49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
Mark 9
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
41
For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
“One mode” you say!!! And then ascribe to him what that “one mode” is. How omniscient of you!
Jesus is the Light of the World! He Savesnobody else can and nothing else will.
Roger that RWC. Former RCC'er here too. I will take my chances outside the RCC.
Damasci sancti Petri Mavimeni, qui, cum diceret Arabibus quibusdam, ad se aegrotum venientibus: Omnis qui fidem Christianam catholicam non amplectitur, damnatus est, sicut et Mahumet, pseudopropheta vester, ab illis est necatus.
Thanks for your post: I hadn't thought to look there for the original Latin, even though I was considering looking for it somewhere and was all this time forgetting the most obvious place.
THE DEBATE SET OFF BY THIS POST IS UNNECESSARY
Sic transit gloria fori.
Ah, you make the common mistake of non-Catholics. You must accept that you are not capable of understanding the Bible or the Catholic's teachings about the Bible. There is no discrepancy between the Bible and the Catholic's teaching. There is no discrepancy between the Catholic's teaching of yesterday and today. Everything is consistent and perfect.
If you don't agree, then you don't properly understand the Catholic's teaching, which is entirely possible since you are not qualified to understand it anyway.
Post #62 in this thread quotes:
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
You mean in what century? As an autocratic organization, like as Rome can defines unanimous consent of the fathers to mean non-unanimous, and "unbroken succession" to vacancies of years, along with competing popes and confusion over which were valid, then Rome deny contradiction to mean explanation.
Which was done with EENS by affirming baptized Prots have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church, joined with them in the Holy Spirit, if separated way of ambiguously explaining it in such a way as to allow interpretations for both sides. Here is the contrast (please excuse the length).
Historical teaching |
Modern interpretation |
Rome in contrast to the NT church |
Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos: Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors. Did not the ancestors of those who are now entangled in the errors of Photius [the eastern Orthodox schismatics] and the reformers, obey the Bishop of Rome, the chief shepherd of souls?...Let none delude himself with obstinate wrangling. For life and salvation are here concerned... Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, PTC:873) The Promotion of True Religious Unity), 11, Encyclical promulgated on January 6, 1928, #11; http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19280106_mortalium-animos_en.html Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence: "The sacrosanct Roman Church...firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that..not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life but will depart `into everlasting fire...unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that..no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church. Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence (Seventeenth Ecumenical Council), Cantate Domino, Bull promulgated on February 4, 1441 (Florentine style), [considered infallible by some] Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV: "One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours." Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215) [considered infallible by some] Pius XII, Humani Generis (27,28): Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. "If, therefore, the Greeks or others say that they are not committed to Peter and to his successors, they necessarily say that they are not of the sheep of Christ, since the Lord says that there is only one fold and one shepherd (Jn.10:16). Whoever, therefore, resists this authority, resists the command of God Himself. " Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html Fifth Lateran Council: Moreover, since subjection to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for all Christ's faithful, as we are taught by the testimony of both sacred scripture and the holy fathers, and as is declared by the constitution of pope Boniface VIII of happy memory, also our predecessor, which begins Unam sanctam, we therefore...renew and give our approval to that constitution... Fifth Lateran CouncilSession 11, 19 December 1516, http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum18.htm "Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the Sources of Revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing.[6] Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation...These and like errors, it is clear, have crept in among certain of Our sons." http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus: There are other, almost countless, proofs drawn from the most trustworthy witnesses which clearly and openly testify with great faith, exactitude, respect and obedience that all who want to belong to the true and only Church of Christ must honor and obey this Apostolic See and Roman Pontiff." Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus (On The Care Of The Churches), Encyclical promulgated on April 8, 1862, # 3. http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P9AMANT2.HTM Pope Pius IX (18461878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem March 17, 1856): There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church. (On the Unity of the Catholic Church) http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9singul.htm Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema. Vatican 1, Ses. 4, Cp. 1 The COUNCIL OF CONSTANCE under Pope John XXIII condemned the proposition of Wycliff that It is not necessary for salvation to believe that the Roman church is supreme among the other churches. [inasmuch as it would deny the primacy of the supreme pontiff over the other individual churches.] Session 84 May 1415; http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/CONSTANC.HTM Pius 9, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore: Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff.. - http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9quanto.htm St. Thomas Aquinas: It is also shown that to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation. For Cyril says in his Thesaurus: Therefore, brethren, if we imitate Christ so as to hear his voice remaining in the Church of Peter and so as not be puffed up by the wind of pride, lest perhaps because of our quarrelling the wily serpent drive us from paradise as once he did Eve. And Maximus in the letter addressed to the Orientals [Greeks] says: The Church united and established upon the rock of Peters confession we call according to the decree of the Savior the universal Church, wherein we must remain for the salvation of our souls and wherein loyal to his faith and confession we must obey him. St. Thomas Aquinas, Against the Errors of the Greeks, Pt. 2, ch. 36 http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraErrGraecorum.htm#b38 St. Frances Xavier Cabrini: "Many Protestants have almost the same practices as we, only they do not submit to the Holy Father and attach themselves to the true Ark of Salvation. They do not want to become Catholics and unite themselves under the banner of truth wherein alone there is true salvation. Of what avail is it, children, if Protestants lead naturally pure, honest lives, yet lack the Holy Ghost? They may well say: 'We do no harm; we lead good lives'; but, if they do not enter the true fold of Christ, all their protestations are in vain." St. Frances Xavier Cabrini, "Travels", Chicago: 1944, pp. 84, 71. St. Ambrose, "Expl. of Luke: "The Lord severed the Jewish people from His kingdom, and heretics and schismatics are also severed from the kingdom of God and from the Church. Our Lord makes it perfectly clear that every assembly of heretics and schismatics belongs not to God, but to the unclean spirit." St. Ambrose, "Expl. of Luke", ch.7, 91-95; PL 15; SS, vol. II, p. 85, (quoted in The Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4: "The Book of Christians", Chapter 2: "Those Who Reject Christ's Church are Anti-Christian"). http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/6480/catholics/apostolic4chp2.html
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Lumen Gentium: "..there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (Cf. Jn. 16:13) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical [Protestant] communities " "They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood." LUMEN GENTIUM: 16. Dominus Iesus: " those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church. All who have been justified by Faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ: they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church. http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html John Paul II, Ut Unum Sint (# 84), May 25, 1995 [Speaking of non-Catholic Churches]: 83. "I have mentioned the will of the Father and the spiritual space in which each community hears the call to overcome the obstacles to unity. All Christian Communities know that, thanks to the power given by the Spirit, obeying that will and overcoming those obstacles are not beyond their reach. All of them in fact have martyrs for the Christian faith.137 Despite the tragedy of our divisions, these brothers and sisters have preserved an attachment to Christ and to the Father so radical and absolute as to lead even to the shedding of blood..." class="western" style="background: transparent">http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25051995_ut-unum-sint_en.html http://www.aleteia.org/image/en/article/high-fivin-the-pope-5876241672437760/pope-and-robison-in-high-five/topic |
While much can be said about the state of the evangelical church today (and of my need for Christ-likeness), it is Catholicism and the church of Rome in particular (as the church taking up the most space on the broad way to destruction) that is most manifest as standing in critical and overall contrast to the NT church. Which church, as manifested in Scripture, 1. Was not based upon the premise of perpetual assured infallibility of office as per Rome, which has presumed to infallibly declare that she is and will perpetually be infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares. 2. Never promised or taught a perpetual assuredly infallible magisterium was necessary for preservation of truth, including writings to be established as Scripture, and for assurance of faith, and that historical descent and being the stewards of Scripture assured that such had assured infallibility. 3. Never was a church that manifested the Lord's supper as being the central means of grace, around which all else revolved, it being the source and summit of the Christian faith in which the work of our redemption is accomplished, by which one received spiritual life in themselves by consuming human flesh, so that without which eating one cannot have eternal life (as per RC literalism, of Jn. 6:53,54). In contrast to believing the gospel by which one is regenerated, (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Eph. 1:13) and desiring the milk (1Pt. 2:2) and then the strong meat (Heb. 5:12-14) of the word of God, being nourished (1Tim. 4:6) by hearing the word of God and letting it dwell in them, (Col. 3:16) by which word (Scriptures) man is to live by, (Mt. 4:4) as Christ lived by the Father, (Jn. 6:57) doing His will being His meat. (Jn. 4:34) And with the Lord's supper, which is only manifestly described once in the life of the church, focusing on the church being the body of Christ in showing the Lord sacrificial death by that communal meal. 4. Never had any pastors titled "priests" as they did not engage in any unique sacrificial function, that of turning bread into human flesh and dispensing it to the people, or even dispensing bread as their primary ordained function, versus preaching the word. (2Tim. 4:2) 5. Never differentiated between bishops and elders, and with grand titles ("Most Reverend Eminence," Very Reverend, Most Illustrious and Most Reverend Lord, His Eminence Cardinal, The Most Reverend the Archbishop, etc.) or made themselves distinct by their ostentatious pompous garb. (Matthew 23:5-7) Or were all to be formally called father as that would require them to be spiritual fathers to all (Mt. 23:8-10 is a form of hyperbole, reproving the love of titles such as Catholicism examples, and thinking of men above that which is written, and instead the Lord emphasizes the One Father of all who are born of the Spirit, whom He Himself worked to glorify). 6. Never required clerical celibacy as the norm, (1Tim. 3:17) which presumes all such have that gift, (1Cor. 7:7) or otherwise manifested that celibacy was the norm among apostles and pastors, or had vowed to be so. (1Cor. 9:4; Titus 1:5,6) 7. Never taught that Peter was the "rock" of Mt. 16:18 upon which the church is built, interpreting Mt. 16:18, rather than upon the rock of the faith confessed by Peter, thus Christ Himself. (For in contrast to Peter, that the LORD Jesus is the Rock (petra) or "stone" (lithos, and which denotes a large rock in Mk. 16:4) upon which the church is built is one of the most abundantly confirmed doctrines in the Bible (petra: Rm. 9:33; 1Cor. 10:4; 1Pet. 2:8; cf. Lk. 6:48; 1Cor. 3:11; lithos: Mat. 21:42; Mk.12:10-11; Lk. 20:17-18; Act. 4:11; Rm. 9:33; Eph. 2:20; cf. Dt. 32:4, Is. 28:16) including by Peter himself. (1Pt. 2:4-8) Rome's current catechism attempts to have Peter himself as the rock as well, but also affirms: On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church, (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424) which understanding some of the so-called church fathers concur with.) 8. Never taught or exampled that all the churches were to look to Peter as the bishop of Rome, as the first of a line of supreme heads reigning over all the churches, and having the last word in questions affecting the whole Church. 9. Never recorded or taught any apostolic successors (like for James: Acts 12:1,2) after Judas who was to maintain the original 12: Rv. 21:14) or elected any apostolic successors by voting, versus casting lots (no politics). (Acts 1:15ff) 10. Never recorded or manifested (not by conjecture) sprinkling or baptism without repentant personal faith, that being the stated requirement for baptism. (Acts 2:38; 8:36-38) 11. Never preached a gospel of salvation which begins with becoming good enough inside (formally justified due to infused interior charity), via sprinkling (RC "baptism") in recognition of proxy faith, and which thus usually ends with becoming good enough again to enter Heaven via suffering in purgatory, commencing at death. 12. Never supported or made laws that restricted personal reading of Scripture by laity (contrary to Chrysostom), if able and available, sometimes even outlawing it when it was. 13. Never used the sword of men to deal with its theological dissenters. 14. Never taught that the deity Muslims worship (who is not as an "unknown god") is the same as theirs. 15. Never had a separate class of believers called saints. 16. Never prayed to anyone in Heaven but the Lord, or were instructed to (i.e. "our Mother who art in Heaven") who were able to hear and respond to virtually unlimited prayers addressed to them (a uniquely Divine attribute in Scripture). 17. Never recorded a women who never sinned, and was a perpetual virgin despite being married (contrary to the normal description of marriage, as in leaving and sexually cleaving) and who would be bodily assumed to Heaven and exalted (officially or with implicit sanction) as an almost almighty demigoddess to whom "Jesus owes His Precious Blood" to, whose [Mary] merits we are saved by, who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin," and was bodily assumed into Heaven, which is a fact (unsubstantiated in Scripture or even early Tradition) because the Roman church says it is, and "was elevated to a certain affinity with the Heavenly Father," and whose power now "is all but unlimited," for indeed she "seems to have the same power as God," "surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven," so that "the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse." and that sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus," for indeed saints have "but one advocate," and that is Mary, who "alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation," Moreover, "there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose," and who has "authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven," including "assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels," whom the good angels "unceasingly call out to," greeting her "countless times each day with 'Hail, Mary,' while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests," and who (obviously) cannot "be honored to excess," and who is (obviously) the glory of Catholic people, whose "honor and dignity surpass the whole of creation." Sources and more. Top^ ► Historical testimony to the progressive deformation of the church |
Salvation in Scripture While salvation according to Rome works by formally justifying a soul by his own holiness, thus usually resulting in spending time in postmortem purifying torments to become good enough to enter Heaven (and atone for sin), in Scripture the redeemed have come to God as souls damned for their works - not saved because of them - and destitute of any means or merit whereby they may escape their just and eternal punishment in Hell Fire and gain eternal life with God. And with contrite heart have cast their whole-hearted repentant faith upon the mercy of God in Christ, trusting the risen Divine Lord Jesus to save them by His sinless shed blood.And whose faith is thus counted as righteousness, (Rm. 3:9 - 5:1) but it is a faith that if salvific will follow Him, (Jn. 10:27,28) being first confessed in baptism, (Acts 2:41; 10:43-47) and dying in the faith, versus drawing back into perdition. (Heb. 3:9,12,14; 10:26-39; Gal. 5:1-5) There is a God - your Creator, Who has given us both good things and good laws. But All have sinned (Rm. 3:23), breaking His good laws and misusing the good things which He has given us for our benefit. Your sins have separated you from God, and no sin will be or should be allowed into God's Holy Heavenly City (Is. 59:1, 2; Rv. 21:27). If you die in your sins - if you have not cast all your faith upon the Lord Jesus Christ to save you and had all your sins washed away by His precious blood (which results in obeying Him) then you will go to a real place that is just the opposite of Heaven, a place of weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth (Mt. 8:12; 13:42). You must be forgiven and born (spiritually) by the Holy Spirit of Christ to see the kingdom of God. Right now you are in one of two spiritual conditions, dead in sins or alive in Christ; traveling on one of two paths, the broad way that leads to everlasting destruction or the narrow way that leads to everlasting life; and heading for one of two eternal places, the Lake of Fire or the Heavenly City of God (Eph. 2:1; Mt. 7:14; Rev. 20-22). The Only Way you can have your sins forgiven and get back to God is through the Lord JESUS CHRIST, whom the Father sent to save you (Acts 4:12; 1Jn. 4:10, 14). It is He who came down from Heaven to live a completely sinless and perfect life, sacrificially showing us what God is like in His love, power and righteousness. Then, in amazing grace, He who did no sin (1Pet. 2:10) took responsibility for all we have done wrong, paying the price for the forgiveness of our sins with His own sinless blood, dying for us! (Rm. 3:25; Col. 1:14; 1Pt. 2:24; 3:18)) And being perfectly righteous, and having done all that is necessary to atone for our sins, it is He whom God raised up from the dead and gave Him glory (1Pet. 1:21), and who now reigns in Heaven at the Father's right hand as man's present Savior and future Judge (Act 10:39-43). Therefore there is no salvation in any other: for there is none other Name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved (Acts 4:12). Neither Allah, the Pope, Mary, Muhammmad, Buddha, etc. can save you. Your church membership, good deeds, praying to saints, etc. will not make you right with God. Only the One who came down from Heaven to die for you and rose again is able to redeem you, on His expense and credit (blood and righteousness) - not yours and strengthen you to follow Him. Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them (Heb. 7:25). What you do with Jesus Christ, the only Begotten Son of the Living and True God, reveals what you truly, ultimately love, and determines where and with whom you will spend ETERNITY! The ultimate question is, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? (Mt. 27:22) and which YOU are now asked. The demonic crowd at that time cried, Let Him be crucified. By your choice today you are either choosing to be partners with them in damnation, or with those who truly profess Jesus Christ is Lord and receive Him unto salvation. Choose ye this day whom ye shall serve. We pray that you, dear soul, will not be a fool and sin away your day of grace but instead will forsake the foolish and live by deciding in your heart you want Jesus more than anything, and choosing Christ and His Life today. (Prv. 9:6). Humble yourself as a guilty and helpless sinner and pray to the Lord Jesus to save you, giving your sins and life to Him: .. the publican [a known sinner], standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner and went down to his house justified (Lk. 18:13). "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved (Rom. 10:9). The Lord Jesus said, He that is not with Me is against Me (Mat. 12:30). To decide for Christ is the most important and necessary decision you will ever make. Therefore think on these things and do not rest until you have truly received the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This decision is shown by being baptized under water in identification with your Lord and following Him as enabled with a Bible-believing and preaching church...despite persecutions! "Then they that gladly received His Word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. ..and went everywhere, preaching the Word (Acts 2:41, 42; 8:4 ). May God bless you and give you grace. Praise the Lord! |
No flies on you!
The rest of us are going to Hell. Except the Muslims. You and the Muzzies have fun spending eternity together.
I don't know what you think "invincible ignorance" is, but a person who HAS heard what the Catholic Church claims or teaches CAN be invincibly ignorant.
[You quote,] Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
[You write,] They claim there's an exception for what they refer to as *invincible ignorance* but that disqualifies people who have heard Catholic church claims of being the one true church.
"Knowing" is not "hearing," though. In other words, I'd distinguish between knowing about a claim and knowing that it's true. I may hear a Saudi cleric's claim that the sun revolves around the earth, but I don't know his claim to be true, heh. If I "knew" everything that I've heard, then what I "knew" would be a seething mess of contradictions.
If hearing were knowing, everyone who heard the gospel would know the gospel. Yes, I know (no pun intended) that "knowing" covers a range of meanings. (Some languages, such as French, Spanish, and German, have at least two words where English has one.) But I doubt that every hearer of the gospel is a knower of the gospel, in even the shallower senses of the word.
And a lot of other places as well. Many libs here would excuse it or even welcome it.
To be honest I din't think of it either. I just googled "mavimeni christianum catholicam" figuring that would bring up the original Latin and was surprised when it brought me back to the same site!!
Simple and truthful!
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