Who is a Christian?

The American Conservative ^ | February 18, 2015 | Rod Dreher

[Alex Murphy]

Here is how Russell Moore, the Southern Baptist pastor who heads the church’s Washington office, responded to the murder of the 21 Coptic Christians by ISIS:

These are my brothers, faithful to Christ even unto death. King Jesus puts heads back on, and puts… http://t.co/0Dps0Lvtxy

— Russell Moore (@drmoore) February 15, 2015

A number of Southern Baptists had similar responses. The Southern Baptist bloggers at Pulpit & Pen will have you know that this is a betrayal:

Do Southern Baptist leaders and other evangelicals really not know what a Christian is or how you become one? Is it being born into an ethnic group that denies the dual-nature of Christ in his full deity and humanity? Is it embracing a meritorious, works-based salvation nearly identical to that of the Roman Catholic church? Is it in aggressively denying salvation by a personal, saving relationship with Jesus Christ? We ask because that’s what Coptic ‘Christians’ believe. This really isn’t new, and we have to wonder why our leaders don’t know what Coptics believe and if they do, what on Earth makes them think they should be categorized as Christians.

Now, sure. In the broadest possible (and most inaccurate) sense possible, the term Christian is applied to the Coptics for the same reason it is applied to Roman Catholics by major media. To secularists, all one has to be to be considered Christian is to call themselves one. In this same sense, the press refers to cultists like the LDS and Jehovah’s Witnesses as Christians as well. There should be no outrage that the press calls them such, or even their outrage representative to evangelicals, Todd Starnes. We get it; they don’t get it. But why again do our Southern Baptist leaders not grasp that?

Maybe it’s one of those “Today we are all Republicans” type things – the expression used by Ronald Reagan’s surgeon the day he was shot – and often used to express solidarity to those suffering. A few weeks ago we are all Charlie Hebdo. So maybe what they mean is, “Today, we are all Coptics.” I think we’re fine with that, in a way. But that’s a far cry from saying, “Today, Coptics are Christians.”

My first response to this is that it is repellent pedantry. Their execution video shows that some of these men called out the name of Jesus as they were having their heads chopped off by these barbarians. Yet these Baptist bloggers contend that they are not Christian because they hold to the faith as delivered to them by their ancestors (the Coptic Church was founded around the year 42 by St. Mark, author of one of the Gospels). Yet because they didn’t hold in their heads — the same heads the Muslims cut off — doctrines espoused by Southern Baptists, a church that came into existence approximately 1,900 years after the Coptic Church began, they are not Christians?

Wow.

I like what Pope Francis said about the martyrs, and agree with him 100 percent:

“They only said ‘Jesus help me…’ The blood of our Christian brothers is testimony that cries out. Be they Catholic, Orthodox, Copts, Lutherans, it doesn’t matter: They’re Christian!”

I wish it were possible to dismiss the legalistic posturing of the Baptist bloggers without giving it a second thought, but the discomfiting truth is that they have a point.

What they’ve done is draw a line between who is in the Church, and who is out of it. This is historically and theologically a sound practice. This is something that has always been done in Christianity. Go to Acts 15 to learn about the Council of Jerusalem. What counts as authentically Christian, and what puts one outside the Church? It might sound silly to many of us that these Southern Baptists do not consider Catholics, Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox (e.g., the Copts) — that is, most of the Christians in the world today — to be truly Christian, but few of us would deny the importance of drawing the theological line somewhere. 

In the year 451, the Pope and the other Patriarchs excommunicated the so-called Oriental Orthodox for holding a heterodox Christology. In other words, they put them outside the Church. I don’t know what the status is today among the churches.

Kyrill, the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, sent condolences to the Coptic Pope and the Egyptian president regarding the murder of the 21 Copts. Kyrill referred to the dead as “Christians,” and told the Coptic Pope that “we” Christians must stand together. I don’t know for certain how we should interpret that, but it seems clear to me that Kyrill sees the Copts as Christians, however imperfect our communion.

In the Christian past, we have murdered our own for heresy. Think of the Catholic crusade against the Albigensians. The Russian Orthodox hunted down the schismatic Archpriest Avvakum, tortured him, and burned him at the stake. Calvinists burned Michael Servetus at the stake for denying the Holy Trinity.

Was Avvakum a Christian? Were the Albigensians? Was Michael Servetus?

Whatever their theological errors, might they have been more essentially Christian than the theologically correct who murdered them for their heterodoxy?

Difficult questions. Speaking for myself alone, I believe that the fullness of truth, as it can be known to us mortals, is taught by the Orthodox Church, but that we can only say who is and is not in communion with it; we can’t say who God will or will not save. The formulation I like is, “We can say where the Church is, but we cannot say where it is not.” I would say that all Christians should be in union with Orthodoxy if they would have the fullness of the truth, but I would not say, “Therefore, those who are not Orthodox are strangers to Christ.” In fact, Jesus Himself said to us, in Matthew 25, how He will know His own:

 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in. I needed clothes and you clothed me. I was sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?  When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

I’m not God, but if I were a betting man, I would place my money on Coptic Christians who called on the name of Jesus as they were about to be killed for being Christian to make it into the Kingdom before Americans who stand on doctrinal differences to deny the faithfulness of the martyrs. Note well: doctrinal issues are important! They just aren’t the most important thing. I believe I hold the correct doctrines, but I have absolutely no doubt that there will be countless Southern Baptists (and others) who go before me into the Kingdom (assuming that I will make it!) because however incorrect their doctrines, they embodied the spirit of Christ in the lives they lived.

To be a true Christian is not simply to hold all the correct propositions in your head. These legalistic American theologians have given their minds over to ideas about Christ; those Copts gave their heads for Christ.

UPDATE: I have delinked to Pulpit & Pen after receiving this e-mail from a reader:

Thanks for your most recent piece (“Who Is a Christian”). As a Southern Baptist, I found it correctly oriented and articulately worded.

One thing I want to warn you about: Pulpit and Pen. Before you give their website any future hits, you should know about their founder, JD Hall. Hall is a militant SBC pastor in Montana who until recently was infamous in Baptist culture for using his Twitter account to antagonize any and all public religious figures he dislikes. Keep in mind, this guy is a full time pastor and leads an evangelical network called Reformation Montana.

You won’t be able to find JD Hall on Twitter anymore, and here’s why: Last spring, Hall approached and bullied the son of a controversial Baptist teacher named Ergun Caner. You can read the details in this Christianity Today piece, but the sum of it is that Hall berated publicly Caner’s son and humiliated him, and a few weeks after the Twitter encounter, Caner’s son committed suicide. In fairness, it seems that the suicide was not directly connected to the online exchange, but even Hall admitted that the incident had changed and “crushed” him. That was several months ago, and though Hall has gotten rid of his twitter account, he has taken the reigns of his organization’s account and seems determined to return to his trolling ways.

This man is still a pastor and still a spiritual leader. He is addicted to wounding people with words and needs serious Christian help and prayer. You’re a smarter man than I am, Rod, but I’d think twice before sending anybody, even by accident, to that man’s website.

Unbelievable. Thanks for the tip-off, reader.

[daniel1212]

I watched a video of a Muslim man who was emotionally torn in heart seeking God and tried in vain to find him via Hours of study in ISlam....when Islam didn't “answer” him after seeking with tears and agony he told “allah”...he no longer could believe him....within seconds of ‘denying allah’ the man heard himself cry out to Jesus.....and Jesus made himself known to him as Savior and was saved. His testimony is amazing.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound.

[RnMomof7]

They actually are oneness Catholics

Here is what they believe

Holy Spirit - The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, the life-giver. God lives by his own Spirit and had no other source.

Jesus Christ - Christ is the manifestation of God, the living Word, sent by the Father as a sacrifice

They see the Trinity as a "concept"

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you for your kind words.

As far as I know, neither the Copts nor any of the other "Oriental" or "non-Calcedonian" Orthodox Churches have ever accepted the spurious "Gospel of Thomas" into their canon, and the dissenters (if any) would have been shown the door quite firmly by Athanasius of Alexandria in the period just after the Council of Nicaea (early 300's).

That's Old Time Religion!

It was good enough for Athanasius
It was good enough for Athanasius
It was good enough for Athanasius
An' it's good enough for me!

Now back to my Beauty Sleep :o)

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Prots as myself are born again children of God.........

---

What you or I believe about who is a Christian counts for nothing, the Apostle Paul laid out one proof which true Christians have followed for 2,000 years in 1 Corinthians 10:17. The Gnostics in the time of St Ignatius refused to partake of the Eucharist and therefore by their actions proved themselves to be outside the Apostolic Faith and the Church of Christ. Sadly, many so called self proclaimed born again people also refuse to share the Eucharist, therefore showing themselves to be outside the Apostolic Faith and violating John 17 and 1 Corinthians 1. Of course Jesus said the unity of his true disciples was essential to show the world He was sent from the Father.
So I applaud the intellectual honesty of these baptists who attack the Coptic martyrs as pagans.......they are holding a mirror to many on this board who daily attack anyone who holds the historical, orthodox Christian Faith, as opposed to the 16th century tradition of men.
The Christian Faith is almost 2,000 years old, not 500 years old. Paying lip service to Faith in Christ is cheap, by ones actions we can see where their true heart is and who is their real father. Satan loves nothing more than when the historical, orthodox Christian Faith is attacked and many on this board are happy to oblige him daily, utterly deceived that they are doing Satan’s bidding.
By their fruits you will know them..........

[sasportas]

The writer of the Hebrews takes us to the day of Pentecost to find who the original Christians were, and their "great salvation."

Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect SO GREAT SALVATION; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

4God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

So great salvation "first spoken by the Lord" - the great commission recorded near the end of the gospels.

"Confirmed by them that heard him" - Christ spoke the great commission, not to the world at large, but to his chosen 12 apostles, and they confirmed it on the day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

God also bearing them witness...with gifts of the Holy Ghost - the gift of the Spirit was given at Pentecost to those who responded to Peter's preaching (Acts 2:38)

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

I just read you are ill and will of course pray for you.

There is no one on FR that I admire more or learn from than you. So you must get better to continue to post here to help me grow in my Christian walk!! ( no pressure )

[daniel1212]

The Gnostics in the time of St Ignatius refused to partake of the Eucharist and therefore by their actions proved themselves to be outside the Apostolic Faith and the Church of Christ. Sadly, many so called self proclaimed born again people also refuse to share the Eucharist, therefore showing themselves to be outside the Apostolic Faith and violating John 17 and 1 Corinthians 1.

So I applaud the intellectual honesty of these baptists who attack the Coptic martyrs as pagans.

So why can't you be as those you call intellectual honest and just admit you believe all Prots are lost who reject the so-called Cath. "Real; Presence" rather than simply inferring that, so we will clearly see that you deny Lumen Gentium, or demonstrate how open to interpretation RC teaching can be.

and violating John 17 and 1 Corinthians 1.

John 17 and 1 Corinthians 1? Far from manifesting being one as Christ is one with the Father, (Jn. 17:21) and being "perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment," (1Co. 1:10) any doctrinal unity in Rome is very limited and largely on paper, while what one does and effects is what constitutes the evidence of what one really believes. (Ja. 2:18; Mt. 7:20)

And Catholicism exists in schisms and sects, formal or informal, you yourself being in one of them, and those Rome counts and treats as members in her visible church in life in death abundantly disagree with her (as she does with herself ) and each other.

And which you must own and accept as brethren, as Rome does, and cannot formally separate from as Scripture requires, and we can.

Moreover, it is incontrovertible that Caths are fare less conservative and unified in core values and beliefs than evangelicals .

Satan loves nothing more than when the historical, orthodox Christian Faith is attacked...

Oh spare us the typical bombast. The so-called historical, orthodox Christian Faith of Catholicism stands in critical contrast to that of the NT church , and cannot be established upon Scriptural substantiation, by which it has been refuted so often here, though you are welcome to provide another opportunity to do so again.

But which attempts end up betraying the fact that Scriptural substantiation is not the basis for the veracity of RC teaching, else their basis for Truth would be as that of evangelicals.

Thus your recourse to the mantra about the historical, orthodox Christian Faith, as the basis for your assurance of Truth is that of the presumed veracity of Rome.

That is what RCs should admit, instead of trying to present themselves as evangelicals in attempting to support traditions of men with Scripture.

In addition, even Catholic scholarship provides testimony against the "historical" propaganda they delude themselves into believing .

[Iscool]

I like what Pope Francis said about the martyrs, and agree with him 100 percent:

“They only said ‘Jesus help me…’ The blood of our Christian brothers is testimony that cries out. Be they Catholic, Orthodox, Copts, Lutherans, it doesn’t matter: They’re Christian!”

I wish it were possible to dismiss the legalistic posturing of the Baptist bloggers without giving it a second thought, but the discomfiting truth is that they have a point.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

If Francis got anything right pertaining to salvation, I'd chalk it up to a lucky guess...

Not all who cry out to Jesus will be saved as Luke 18 shows us...We can only hope they were more like the Publican than the Pharisee...

When people come face to face with death, at least with some of them, everything is stripped away...Mary? Gone...Sacraments? Gone...Good works? Gone...Church? Gone....Nothing there but you and Jesus...Everything gets real and personal...My guess is some of these Coptics got saved right then and there...

[metmom]

Thanks dan. Good work as usual.

[metmom]

Facing death has a way of stripping away the non-essentials.

Even if you live past it (recover), it leaves a permanent change.

Even as a believer, at one time I was afraid to die.

That’s long gone from more than one experience with health issues.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thank you. Keep those powerful prayers a-comin-

Practice (and here I'm preaching to myself) ---practice saying yes to Jesus.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

it’s not my place to say anyone is lost.

we can say what Paul said to Titus about those who opposed the Apostolic Faith in his day:

1:16
they profess to know God, but they deny Him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed.

in other words, with their mouths they claim to know Jesus and believe in Him, but their deeds of attacking Him by attacking the historical orthodox Universal Church prove they don’t know Him at all and in fact are just doing the work of their true father....

these Baptists are a very good example of this, but one only has to read the FR religion forum daily to find their fellow travelers.

[RnMomof7]

The Christian Faith is almost 2,000 years old, not 500 years old.

Indeed it is.the mistake Catholics make is they believe that Rome was the original NT church..but not so n the NT you will not find the "mass" a priesthood, the apostles preforming 7 sacraments, no statues, no holy water, no prayer to the dead.. and no pope..

[Campion]

Who’s “they”? The Copts? Most Copts are not Coptic Catholics but Coptic Orthodox (but not in communion with Constantinople any more than they are with Rome), and I’d like to see your evidence that the Coptic *Catholics* (who are much less numerous than the Orthodox) believe anything like that.

[Campion]

All seven sacraments are mentioned in the NT in one way or the other. Priests are elders. The essence of the Mass was instituted at the Last Supper. And so on.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

hmm, not sure what “rome” is, but there is only one true Universal Church, it has been on earth visibly for close to 2,000 years, it has never fallen away as some false prophets teach, it has always followed the Apostolic teaching whether by written word or oral preaching, it is led by the Holy Spirit into all truth, and you are correct the NT does not record the Apostles marrying anyone to the best of my knowledge, statues and holy water have never been and are not today essential parts of the Faith and no one I know has ever prayed to a dead person ( the dead can’t hear anything ).....now praying to those alive in Christ and who are currently in heaven, different story.

but you know what else you don’t find in the NT? you don’t find people reading the Scriptures and deciding to form new “churches” based on what THEY believe the Scriptures teach. you don’t find in Corinth a Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Mormom, Pentecostal, Jehovah Witness or any other “church” than the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH.

[don-o]

Well lookie there! A pack of nutty nuns. Precious. One should thank God every day that WE are not like them. (Insert /s or not according to your identification with the Publican or the Phasisee.)

[RnMomof7]

ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH.

No such animal as "apostolic" succession... what is the measuring rod for truth ?

[daniel1212]

Well lookie there! A pack of nutty nuns. Precious.

Listen. It is RCs who are incessantly preaching a elitist church, and telling us we must be part of it to be saved, but which entity treats these nuns, as well as proabortion pols etc., as members in life and in death, and thus you must own them as brethren.

And consider the absurdity of telling those who have obeyed the Biblical injunction to "be ye separate" from such, that they need to join a "big tent" church and be brethren with these as well, besides majority unregenerate and the cultic members who make an idol out of a church.