Posted on 02/19/2015 9:39:57 AM PST by Alex Murphy
Here is how Russell Moore, the Southern Baptist pastor who heads the church’s Washington office, responded to the murder of the 21 Coptic Christians by ISIS:
These are my brothers, faithful to Christ even unto death. King Jesus puts heads back on, and puts… http://t.co/0Dps0Lvtxy
— Russell Moore (@drmoore) February 15, 2015
A number of Southern Baptists had similar responses. The Southern Baptist bloggers at Pulpit & Pen will have you know that this is a betrayal:
Do Southern Baptist leaders and other evangelicals really not know what a Christian is or how you become one? Is it being born into an ethnic group that denies the dual-nature of Christ in his full deity and humanity? Is it embracing a meritorious, works-based salvation nearly identical to that of the Roman Catholic church? Is it in aggressively denying salvation by a personal, saving relationship with Jesus Christ? We ask because that’s what Coptic ‘Christians’ believe. This really isn’t new, and we have to wonder why our leaders don’t know what Coptics believe and if they do, what on Earth makes them think they should be categorized as Christians.
Now, sure. In the broadest possible (and most inaccurate) sense possible, the term Christian is applied to the Coptics for the same reason it is applied to Roman Catholics by major media. To secularists, all one has to be to be considered Christian is to call themselves one. In this same sense, the press refers to cultists like the LDS and Jehovah’s Witnesses as Christians as well. There should be no outrage that the press calls them such, or even their outrage representative to evangelicals, Todd Starnes. We get it; they don’t get it. But why again do our Southern Baptist leaders not grasp that?
Maybe it’s one of those “Today we are all Republicans” type things – the expression used by Ronald Reagan’s surgeon the day he was shot – and often used to express solidarity to those suffering. A few weeks ago we are all Charlie Hebdo. So maybe what they mean is, “Today, we are all Coptics.” I think we’re fine with that, in a way. But that’s a far cry from saying, “Today, Coptics are Christians.”
My first response to this is that it is repellent pedantry. Their execution video shows that some of these men called out the name of Jesus as they were having their heads chopped off by these barbarians. Yet these Baptist bloggers contend that they are not Christian because they hold to the faith as delivered to them by their ancestors (the Coptic Church was founded around the year 42 by St. Mark, author of one of the Gospels). Yet because they didn’t hold in their heads — the same heads the Muslims cut off — doctrines espoused by Southern Baptists, a church that came into existence approximately 1,900 years after the Coptic Church began, they are not Christians?
Wow.
I like what Pope Francis said about the martyrs, and agree with him 100 percent:
“They only said ‘Jesus help me…’ The blood of our Christian brothers is testimony that cries out. Be they Catholic, Orthodox, Copts, Lutherans, it doesn’t matter: They’re Christian!”
I wish it were possible to dismiss the legalistic posturing of the Baptist bloggers without giving it a second thought, but the discomfiting truth is that they have a point.
What they’ve done is draw a line between who is in the Church, and who is out of it. This is historically and theologically a sound practice. This is something that has always been done in Christianity. Go to Acts 15 to learn about the Council of Jerusalem. What counts as authentically Christian, and what puts one outside the Church? It might sound silly to many of us that these Southern Baptists do not consider Catholics, Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox (e.g., the Copts) — that is, most of the Christians in the world today — to be truly Christian, but few of us would deny the importance of drawing the theological line somewhere.
In the year 451, the Pope and the other Patriarchs excommunicated the so-called Oriental Orthodox for holding a heterodox Christology. In other words, they put them outside the Church. I don’t know what the status is today among the churches.
Kyrill, the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, sent condolences to the Coptic Pope and the Egyptian president regarding the murder of the 21 Copts. Kyrill referred to the dead as “Christians,” and told the Coptic Pope that “we” Christians must stand together. I don’t know for certain how we should interpret that, but it seems clear to me that Kyrill sees the Copts as Christians, however imperfect our communion.
In the Christian past, we have murdered our own for heresy. Think of the Catholic crusade against the Albigensians. The Russian Orthodox hunted down the schismatic Archpriest Avvakum, tortured him, and burned him at the stake. Calvinists burned Michael Servetus at the stake for denying the Holy Trinity.
Was Avvakum a Christian? Were the Albigensians? Was Michael Servetus?
Whatever their theological errors, might they have been more essentially Christian than the theologically correct who murdered them for their heterodoxy?
Difficult questions. Speaking for myself alone, I believe that the fullness of truth, as it can be known to us mortals, is taught by the Orthodox Church, but that we can only say who is and is not in communion with it; we can’t say who God will or will not save. The formulation I like is, “We can say where the Church is, but we cannot say where it is not.” I would say that all Christians should be in union with Orthodoxy if they would have the fullness of the truth, but I would not say, “Therefore, those who are not Orthodox are strangers to Christ.” In fact, Jesus Himself said to us, in Matthew 25, how He will know His own:
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in. I needed clothes and you clothed me. I was sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
I’m not God, but if I were a betting man, I would place my money on Coptic Christians who called on the name of Jesus as they were about to be killed for being Christian to make it into the Kingdom before Americans who stand on doctrinal differences to deny the faithfulness of the martyrs. Note well: doctrinal issues are important! They just aren’t the most important thing. I believe I hold the correct doctrines, but I have absolutely no doubt that there will be countless Southern Baptists (and others) who go before me into the Kingdom (assuming that I will make it!) because however incorrect their doctrines, they embodied the spirit of Christ in the lives they lived.
To be a true Christian is not simply to hold all the correct propositions in your head. These legalistic American theologians have given their minds over to ideas about Christ; those Copts gave their heads for Christ.
UPDATE: I have delinked to Pulpit & Pen after receiving this e-mail from a reader:
Thanks for your most recent piece (“Who Is a Christian”). As a Southern Baptist, I found it correctly oriented and articulately worded.
One thing I want to warn you about: Pulpit and Pen. Before you give their website any future hits, you should know about their founder, JD Hall. Hall is a militant SBC pastor in Montana who until recently was infamous in Baptist culture for using his Twitter account to antagonize any and all public religious figures he dislikes. Keep in mind, this guy is a full time pastor and leads an evangelical network called Reformation Montana.
You won’t be able to find JD Hall on Twitter anymore, and here’s why: Last spring, Hall approached and bullied the son of a controversial Baptist teacher named Ergun Caner. You can read the details in this Christianity Today piece, but the sum of it is that Hall berated publicly Caner’s son and humiliated him, and a few weeks after the Twitter encounter, Caner’s son committed suicide. In fairness, it seems that the suicide was not directly connected to the online exchange, but even Hall admitted that the incident had changed and “crushed” him. That was several months ago, and though Hall has gotten rid of his twitter account, he has taken the reigns of his organization’s account and seems determined to return to his trolling ways.
This man is still a pastor and still a spiritual leader. He is addicted to wounding people with words and needs serious Christian help and prayer. You’re a smarter man than I am, Rod, but I’d think twice before sending anybody, even by accident, to that man’s website.
Unbelievable. Thanks for the tip-off, reader.
I have read this over a couple times since you posted it.
a. The Baptist in the original post is quite frankly off base. Way of base. Those Coptics died in the name of Jesus. May we be so brave when our time comes.
2. You are correct in #4. I hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith, 1646. Sadly there aren’t any (or many)Presbyterian churches that hold to it as then written. What many won’t understand it the WCG is not above or even equal to Scripture. But, in my mind has the best summary of what Scripture teaches about God, man, salvation and the Christian life.
Might as well make the same determination for Catholics as with Copts then - unless you are speaking totally outside what the author asserted.
Acts 2:36-47 gives a pretty good summary of what was done by those guilty of crucifying Jesus in order to obtain forgiveness of their sins (v. 38, together with Matthew 26:28 which invokes the blood of Jesus Christ as the cleansing agent, see also, Colossians 1:13-14) and become a member of God’s people (verse 47). In Acts 20:28 obedient Christians (in this case, the overseers [or, elders, v. 17] of the congregation of Christians located in Ephesus) are said to be responsible for feeding the church of God, purchased with the blood of Christ.
A similar path was one Saul (later called Paul) traveled to be cleansed from his sins (he described himself as “the chief of sinners.”) Acts 9:6: “...Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou MUST do.” Read the three accounts in the book of Acts of Saul’s conversion and see what he was told to do: Acts 22:16: “And, now why tarriest thou? arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” He was given no other instructions per the scriptures.
The sinful people in Corinth (I Corinthians 6:9:11) were said to have been ‘washed,’ ‘sanctified,’ and ‘justified’ in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and by the Spirit of our God. What had they done? Acts 18:8: “...many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.” A further bit of insight into the Corinthians’ obedience is found in I Corinthians 12:13: “For by one Spirit are we (Saul, now Paul, includes himself in this statement) all baptized into one body...” (see Colossians 1:18 for a definition of “the body”).
Thanks for meditating on these things!
In terms of those teachings ... that sounds right.
But you never know when one particular individual may have ignored those false teachings, and may indeed be a Christian “in spite of those teachings”. It does happen.
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God knows their heart, not us.
If they were trusting Jesus at the last, they will be saved.
If not, they won’t.
It’s not for us to determine. We’ll find out when we get there if we need to know.
That phrase about says it all. However, the truth is that "There is NO WAY unto the Father, but by ME"-Jesus.
However, The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit, (Psalms 34:18) in the context of faith in the true God and salvation by grace, not merit, and the Coptics both hold to key salvific Truths and due to their persecution are more likely to have a depth of faith that is real.
And while some persons will hold to and not deny their faith due to cultural pride, the context weighs in favour of at least some or most of these dying as Christians because they would not deny him and become Muslim, which option i presume was given them.
That even could be the day of one's salvation. Meanwhile, are we walking consistent with saving faith daily, and in such as closeness that if our next step takes us into eternity it would just be as the other steps we took as we walked in fellowship with Christ;
hoping and looking forward to seeing Him, and doing works so as to have something to show our gratitude to Him for drawing, convicting, opening our hearts and saving us by faith in His sinless shed blood? Need to do so consistently and better.
The only hope that can save Muslims is to cry out to Jesus...
I watched a video of a Muslim man who was emotionally torn in heart seeking God and tried in vain to find him via Hours of study in ISlam....when Islam didn't “answer” him after seeking with tears and agony he told “allah”...he no longer could believe him....within seconds of ‘denying allah’ the man heard himself cry out to Jesus.....and Jesus made himself known to him as Savior and was saved. His testimony is amazing.
Muslims know of Jesus so I do believe He is standing ever so close to them when their “heart breaks” from Islam and He is quick to act.
Through the power of the Holy Spirit.
the arrogance of those holding on to the 16th century tradition of men is amazing to behold.
no Christians existed before the 16th century? lol
Aha, so the answer was in the Bible all along!
:-)
Check your local ordinances and fire codes though.
I'd hate to see one get in trouble, just for doing what they should....
And just think...it could be named after the Montana Southern Baptist (who should perhaps be barred from sending any representatives to any future SB conventions) and it seems like hardly anyone here would be rushing to Moore's defense.
Burn baby burn. Your smirk-face argument -- first, then maybe Moore, in effigy.
Why are they not lined up to berate you for criminal excerpting and italicization?
Should I ping the usual suspects accusers?
You know, those who love you so very very much they lecture you as for 'love' even as they berate you for italicization of paragraphs taken from an article heading a thread (when they could scroll up just a wee bit and read the same thing --- but make it out to be that it's all your fault for whatever was said in an article) or else tell you what a hater you are for asking a question, while they lecture--'love', but give no other answer....
Your questions are evil-boll weevil, fearless leader. Chiefly, because they come from you.
I suspect this could be one of those instances where one and one and one do not make three...because in the end, they still all add up to one.
Correct, we don't know, but it IS on an individual basis. Each one makes his own decision about his relationship with Christ.
Amen. None of us here will be organizing heaven. That will be the owner of the place. Jesus did say there are many mansions and I suspect it will be a diverse crowd occupying them. How we organize things here will also be reversed according to Jesus. The first will be last and the last first.
It’s a pretty fair assessment that if the teachings are wrong, then the people under those teachings are not Christians. You can’t say that in any ONE person, but you can say that “in the aggregate” ... which is as far as we know.
For example, if people live under the teachings of a cult group like Mormons ... those teachings don’t produce Christians. We can say that “in the aggregate” ... BUT ... you may find a Mormon sitting under those teachings, who has ignored them, not believed them, and instead, took his understanding STRICTLY from the Bible and not from any of the materials and false doctrines of Mormonism. In that manner, you may find someone who “looked like a Mormon” on the surface ... but never was, because he REJECTED those false doctrines, and truly accepted Jesus, the Messiah of Israel as his Savior, per the Bible, alone.
The same is possible with a Copt, here and there, but it would not be true “in the aggregate”!
Yes, I did not know of their association with Mark. What I was also alluding to was the Copt’s potentially Gnostic “Gospel of Thomas,” among other things:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas
Mrs. Don-o, I am honored you took the time to respond to my post. You have a lovely heart.
My wife and I will keep you and your family in our prayers.
Please take appropriate care of yourself to heal as well as possible.
Like as they must resort to do so often with Scripture, that is blatant Roman reading into the text of a reply, and in which i essentially said the opposite.
To hold that no Christians existed before the 16th century is as untenable as to hold that no Caths are children of God today, even if they be relative few, as is the case with liberal Prot denominations.
Of course, to be consistent, a historical RC cannot allow that Prots such as myself are born again children of God (or that Catholic rulers are not to exterminate the "heretics" in his country), and must contend with V2 RCs who allow otherwise. Of which are many blind leading the blind.
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