Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Sola Scriptura
The John Ankerberg Show ^ | Feb.11,2015 | James McCarthy;

Posted on 02/11/2015 12:02:36 PM PST by RnMomof7

Sola Scriptura

Today, even as in the time of the Reformation, thousands of Catholics worldwide are leaving Roman Catholicism for biblical Christianity. And once again, the rallying cry of the sixteenth century, Sola Scriptura, Scripture Alone, is being heard.

Roman Catholic defenders have responded to this challenge by going on the offen­sive. A typical argument sounds something like this:

The Bible cannot be the sole rule of faith, because the first Christians didn’t have the New Testament. Initially, Tradition, the oral teachings of the apostles, was the Church’s rule of faith. The New Testament came later when a portion of Tradition was put to writing. It was the Roman Catholic Church that produced the New Testament, and it was the Church that infallibly told us what books belong in the Bible. It is the Church, therefore, that is the authoritative teacher of Scripture. Sola Scriptura is not even taught in the Bible. The rule of faith of the Roman Catholic Church, therefore, is rightly Scripture and Tradition together.

Christians confronted with such arguments should keep the following points in mind:

Christians have never been without the Scriptures as their rule of faith.

The unforgettable experience of two early disciples shows the fallacy of thinking that the first Christians were ever without Scripture as their rule of faith. Three days after the crucifixion, two of Jesus’ disciples were walking home. A fellow traveler, whom they took for a stranger, joined them along the way. The conversation quickly turned to the events that had just taken place in Jerusalem. With deep sorrow, the disciples told the story of how the chief priests and rulers of the nation had sentenced Jesus to death and had Him crucified by the civil authorities.

To the disciples’ shock, the stranger rebuked them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!” (Luke 24:25, NIV). Then begin­ning with Moses and proceeding through the prophets, the stranger explained to them the truths concerning Jesus in the Old Testament Scriptures.

Eventually the two disciples realized that their fellow traveler was no stranger at all but the Lord Jesus Himself! Later they recalled, “Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?” (Luke 24:32).

The experience of those two early disciples was not unique. With the Holy Spirit’s coming at Pentecost, and with the aid of the apostles’ teaching, Jewish Christians rediscov­ered their own Scriptures. Their common conviction was that the Old Testament, properly understood, was a revelation of Christ. There they found a prophetic record of Jesus’ life, teaching, death, and resurrection.

The Old Testament Scriptures served as the standard of truth for the infant church, Jew and Gentile alike. Within a short time, the New Testament Scriptures took their place alongside those of the Old Testament. Consequently, the early church was never without the written Word of God.

Scripture is not simply written Tradition.

Roman Catholic descriptions of the origin of the New Testament stress that the oral teachings of the apostles, Tradition, preceded the written record of those teachings, Scrip­ture. Often the New Testament is presented as little more than a written record of Tradition, the writer’s recollections, and a partial explanation of Christ’s teaching. This, of course, elevates Tradition to the same level of authority as Scripture—or, more precisely, drops Scripture to the level of Tradition.

But the New Testament Scriptures are much more than a written record of the oral teaching of the apostles; they are an inspired record. A biblical understanding of inspiration makes clear the significance of this distinction. Peter writes,

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:20-21 (NIV)

Here we see that Scripture is not “the prophet’s own interpretation” (2 Peter 1:20, NIV). The word translated “interpretation” means to solve or to explain. Peter is saying that no writer of the New Testament simply recorded his own explanation of what he had heard Jesus teach and had seen Him do. Scripture does not have “its origin in the will of man” (2 Peter 1:21, NIV). The writers of the Bible did not decide that they would write a prophetic record or what would be included in Scripture. Rather, they were “carried along by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:21, NIV).

The word translated here “carried along” is found in the New Testament in Mark 2:3. There it is used with reference to the paralytic whose friends carried him to Jesus for heal­ing. Just as the paralytic did not walk by his own power, a true prophet does not write by his own impulse. He is “carried along by the Holy Spirit” (2 Peter 1:21, NIV). Men wrote the New Testament; “men spoke” (2 Peter 1:21, NIV). Their writings reflect their individual personalities and experiences. But these “men spoke from God” (2 Peter 1:21). Men wrote but God was the author.

For these reasons, Scripture is revelation perfectly communicated in God-given words:

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NKJV)

The phrase “inspired by God” is the translation of a compound term made up of the words God and to breathe. The verse can be translated: “All Scripture is God-breathed. . . “(2 Timothy 3:16, NIV). Scripture is therefore rightly called the Word of God.

In reducing Scripture to simply written Tradition, Catholic proponents are able to boost the importance of Tradition. But in doing so, they distort the meaning of inspiration and minimize the primary difference between Scripture and Tradition.

The Bible contains all essential revelation.

It is true that the New Testament does not contain a record of everything that Jesus did. John makes this clear in the conclusion of his gospel:

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books which were written. John 21:25

John’s point in concluding his gospel with this comment was to acknowledge that the life of the Lord Jesus was far too wonderful to be fully contained in any book. He was not commenting on the general purpose of Scripture or the need for Tradition. Neither was he implying that he had left out of his book essential revelation received from Christ. Indeed, earlier in his gospel, John implies the opposite:

Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name. John 20:30-31

We can infer from this statement that John included in his gospel all the essential teachings of Christ necessary for salvation. Significantly, he makes no reference to seven sacraments, the Sacrifice of the Mass, sanctifying grace, penance, purgatory, or an institu­tion such as the Roman Catholic Church—all necessary for salvation according to Roman Catholicism.

The Scriptures achieve their stated purpose: “that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:17 NIV). They are the perfect guide to the Christian faith. Unlike Tradition, the Scriptures are accessible and open to all. Translations of the entire Bible have been made into the primary languages of the world, 276 in total. It is the most widely distributed and read book in all of history.

To define Roman Catholic Tradition as a font of extra-biblical revelation is to add to God’s Word. Scripture warns us “not to exceed what is written” (1 Corinthians 4:6). “Do not add to His words lest He reprove you, and you be proved a liar” (Proverbs 30:6). The last book of the New Testament ends with this solemn warning:

I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19

At question is the authority of Tradition, not Scripture.

There are hundreds of verses in the Bible establishing the truth that the Word of God is the church’s sufficient and supreme rule of faith. Psalm 119 alone dedicates 176 verses to the unparalleled value of God’s Word. The Lord Jesus taught:

Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Matthew 4:4

Though Scriptures can be multiplied on this theme, it is not necessary to do so. The Roman Catholic Church agrees that the Bible teaches that the Word of God is the supreme rule of faith and that all theology must rest upon it. There is no question as to the suffi­ciency or authority of the Word of God.

The controversy revolves around the identity of God’s Word. Namely, is the Word of God Scripture and Tradition? Or, is the Word of God Scripture alone?

In the ongoing debate, Roman Catholic proponents enjoy taking the offensive by challenging non-Catholics to prove that God intended that the Scriptures alone were to serve as the church’s rule of faith. “Where does the Bible teach Sola Scriptura?” they demand.

Though this tactic is effective in putting their opponents on the defensive, it is in fact misleading. Both sides agree that the Scriptures are the Word of God and that as such they speak with divine authority. The Lord Jesus Himself, in John 10:35, clearly identifies the Word of God as Scripture.

The point of controversy is Tradition. The Roman Catholic Church asserts that Tradi­tion is also the Word of God.

The question which the Roman Catholic Church must answer, therefore, is: Where does Jesus, the prophets, or the apostles teach that Tradition is the Word of God? Or, more precisely: Where in the Bible can it be found that Scripture and Tradition together, as interpreted by the pope and bishops of the Roman Catholic Church, are to be the church’s rule of faith? This is what Roman Catholicism is really asserting and should be the topic of debate. And since the Roman Catholic Church is the one asserting the authority of Tradi­tion and the Magesterium, the burden of proof lies with Rome.

Adapted from The Gospel According to Rome (Harvest House Publishers: Eugene, 1995).

Notes

  1. Compare: Second Vatican Council, “Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation,” no. 19.
  2. Patrick Johnstone, Operation World (Grand Rapids, MIchigan: Zondervan, 1993), p. 22.
  3. Second Vatican Council, “Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation,” no. 21 and no. 24.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: ruleoffaith; scripture
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 781-782 next last
To: OneWingedShark

Given the amount of confusion and myriad interpretations of said scripture...it would seem the the utter inferiority of man has made a mess of Christi’s plea that “they all might be one flock” instead we have umpteen different views of what is correct...what isn’t...what is importAnt and what isn’t... As if God said “ I am going to inspire these guys to write my word...but all generations are on their own to decide how to interpret it...all with eternal consequences in the balance


161 posted on 02/11/2015 7:16:34 PM PST by bike800
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: OneWingedShark

But, more seriously, I think that he’s referring this:


That is probably true, in thinking I am Catholic.

At any rate I can see that Peter could have been called the rock and maybe including all of the apostles.I can also see the other side.

I get involved some times for being able to see both sides, or at least to think I can see both sides.


162 posted on 02/11/2015 7:34:29 PM PST by ravenwolf (s letters scripture.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 158 | View Replies]

To: bike800
but all generations are on their own to decide how to interpret it

Doesn't this sort of reasoning disregard the Holy Spirit though? After all, one of His purposes/jobs/works is to lead to truth.

163 posted on 02/11/2015 7:40:13 PM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies]

To: bike800

God used Judas, Balaam’s donkey, and Pontius Pilot to work His will. Shall we continue?


164 posted on 02/11/2015 7:41:12 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: ravenwolf; metmom
>>Oh they don`t say it that way huh? Jesus calls Peter Cephas in John 1:42<<

Yes he did and clarified which word in the Greek he meant also.

John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And Jesus looking upon him, said: Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is interpreted Peter (Petros.

He didn't say it meant petra.

165 posted on 02/11/2015 8:15:27 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 143 | View Replies]

To: stonehouse01; GBA; Elsie; CynicalBear; boatbums
During Ptolemy II of Philadelphus’ reign (285-246 B.C.), 70 Jewish scholars in Alexandria translated the entire Hebrew bible into Greek. This canon of the OT, translated by Jews, contained the books that Luther pitched more 1,500 years later....and was the translation used by the new testament writers and Jesus himself....The septuagint contains 46 books

You are parroting one dubious or fallacious argument after another. That 70 Jewish scholars in Alexandria translated the entire Hebrew bible into Greek is a legend, while MSS evidence is against the 1st century LXX containing the apocryphal books (Deuteros) that Luther, along with notable RCs, rejected as being Scripture proper. Instead, evidence points to these books being added later by Christians. Later Septuagint contain books which no early manuscripts of the Septuagint are known to have, and Josephus (with his 22 book tripartite canon] and others evidence they did not.

My research finds that the earliest Greek manuscripts date to the time of Augustine, whose influence is reflected in the codex manuscripts. In addition, none of the Greek Manuscripts contain all the Apocryphal books. No Greek manuscript has the exact list of Apocryphal books accepted by the Council of Trent, and some contain books she rejects (1545-63). And with a 500 year difference between translation and existing manuscripts, there is plenty of time for Apocryphal books to slip in.

Cyril of Jerusalem, whose list rejected the apocrypha (except for Baruch) exhorts his readers to “read the Divine Scriptures, the twenty-two books of the Old Testament, these that have been translated by the Seventy-two Interpreters,” the latter referring to the Septuagint but not as including the apocrypha. (http://www.bible-researcher.com/cyril.html)

Philo of Alexandria (1st c A.D.) states that only the Torah (the first 5 books of the O.T.) was commissioned to be translated, leaving the rest of the O.T. following in later centuries, and in an order that is not altogether clear.

British scholar R. T. Beckwith states, Philo of Alexandria's writings show it to have been the same as the Palestinian. He refers to the three familiar sections, and he ascribes inspiration to many books in all three, but never to any of the Apocrypha....The Apocrypha were known in the church from the start, but the further back one goes, the more rarely are they treated as inspired. (Roger T. Beckwith, "The Canon of the Old Testament" in Phillip Comfort, The Origin of the Bible [Wheaton: Tyndale House, 2003] pp. 57-64)

Manuscripts of anything like the capacity of Codex Alexandrinus were not used in the first centuries of the Christian era, and since in the second century AD the Jews seem largely to have discarded the Septuagint…there can be no real doubt that the comprehensive codices of the Septuagint, which start appearing in the fourth century AD, are all of Christian origin.

Nor is there agreement between the codices which the Apocrypha include...Moreover, all three codices [Vaticanus, Sinaiticus and Alexandrinus], according to Kenyon, were produced in Egypt, yet the contemporary Christian lists of the biblical books drawn up in Egypt by Athanasius and (very likely) pseudo-Athanasius are much more critical, excluding all apocryphal books from the canon, and putting them in a separate appendix. (Roger Beckwith, [Anglican priest, Oxford BD and Lambeth DD], The Old Testament Canon of the New Testament Church [Eerdmans 1986], p. 382, 383; http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2008/01/legendary-alexandrian-canon.html)

Likewise Gleason Archer affirms,

Even in the case of the Septuagint, the apocryphal books maintain a rather uncertain existence. The Codex Vaticanus (B) lacks [besides 3 and 4] 1 and 2 Maccabees (canonical, according to Rome), but includes 1 Esdras (non-canonical, according to Rome). The Sinaiticus (Aleph) omits Baruch (canonical, according to Rome), but includes 4 Maccabees (non-canonical, according to Rome)... Thus it turns out that even the three earliest MSS or the LXX show considerable uncertainty as to which books constitute the list of the Apocrypha.. (Archer, Gleason L., Jr., "A Survey of Old Testament Introduction", Moody Press, Chicago, IL, Rev. 1974, p. 75; http://www.provethebible.net/T2-Integ/B-1101.htm)

The German historian Martin Hengel writes,Sinaiticus contains Barnabas and Hermas, Alexandrinus 1 and 2 Clement.” “Codex Alexandrinus...includes the LXX as we know it in Rahlfs’ edition, with all four books of Maccabees and the fourteen Odes appended to Psalms.” “...the Odes (sometimes varied in number), attested from the fifth century in all Greek Psalm manuscripts, contain three New Testament ‘psalms’: the Magnificat, the Benedictus, the Nunc Dimittis from Luke’s birth narrative, and the conclusion of the hymn that begins with the ‘Gloria in Excelsis.’ This underlines the fact that the LXX, although, itself consisting of a collection of Jewish documents, wishes to be a Christian book.” (Martin Hengel, The Septuagint as Christian Scripture [Baker 2004], pp. 57-59)

Also,

The Targums did not include these books, nor the earliest versions of the Peshitta, and the apocryphal books are seen to have been later additions, and later versions of the LXX varied in regard to which books of the apocrypha they contained. “Nor is there agreement between the codices which of the Apocrypha include. (Eerdmans 1986), 382.

Edward Earle Ellis writes, “No two Septuagint codices contain the same apocrypha, and no uniform Septuagint ‘Bible’ was ever the subject of discussion in the patristic church. In view of these facts the Septuagint codices appear to have been originally intended more as service books than as a defined and normative canon of Scripture,” (E. E. Ellis, The Old Testament in Early Christianity [Baker 1992], 34-35.

The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, Answering the charges of an anti- Semite Apion at the end of the first century of our era, states,

“We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other. other. Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty, and contain the record of all time....” — Josephus, Against Apion, 1,8 (38-41)

The twenty-two books mentioned here are usually thought to be the same as our thirty-nine, each double book being counted as one, and Judges-Ruth, Ezra-Nehemiah, and Jeremiah-Lamentations each being held as one book. Robert C. Newman, states .

"This agrees with the impression conveyed by the Gospel accounts, where Jesus, the Pharisees, and the Palestinian Jewish community in general seem to understand by the term "Scripture" some definite body of sacred writings."

"...the pseudepigraphical work 4 Ezra (probably written about A.D. 1208)...admits that only twenty-four Scriptures have circulated publicly since Ezra's time."— Robert C. Newman, "THE COUNCIL OF JAMNIA AND THE OLD TESTAMENT CANON," Westminster Theological Journal 38.4 (Spr. 1976) 319-348. ^

Jesus himself used the Alexandrian canon of the bible. We know this because the New Testament records direct quotes from Jesus himself.

Another fallacious claim. You do not know this, for quoting from the LXX, which is often done in the NT among the multitudinous quotations and direct references to the books named in the Hebrew canon, does not mean the 1st c. LXX contained it, while the Lord never quoted from the apocryphal books.

RCs post a list of "references" to the Deuteros, but i have yet to one that is anything more than something similar or that is found in the Hebrew canon, or perhaps an event, but none of which are given authority as Scripture, such as "thus saith the Lord," or as part of the Law (which can include texts from Psalms, Proverbs and prophets), or are called "Scripture" as many texts from other books are.

Moreover, even quoting someone does not necessarily infer the whole work is of God, as pagans are even quoted, but not as Scripture, or unlike from the apocrypha, a prophecy of the book of Enoch is quoted, but which book even Rome rejects as Scripture.

The Hebrew canon was not settled until 100 A.D. at the Council of Jamnia, in Palestine.

Another dubious claim, as while many have referred to a "Council of Jamnia" as authoritatively setting the Hebrew canon around 100 A.D., yet modern research research no longer considers that to be the case, or that there even was a council, while some scholars argue that the Jewish canon was fixed earlier by the Hasmonean dynasty (140 and c. 116 B.C.). — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Jamnia

It was done in reaction to the Christian (Catholic) Church which was using the Alexandrian canon and gaining converts because the books not used by the Jamnia council were converting MORE Jews to Christianity because they supported (and still do) Catholic doctrine.

More fantasy. The motivation ascribed to a theoretical determinative Jamnia council is itself dubious, as not only is the evidence against the 1st c. LXX containing the Deuteros, but while the LXX of the Hebrew canon is more often seen as more supportive of the Christian (not RC) faith, there is nothing in the Deuteros that distinctively teaches Christian doctrine as seen in the NT, and little that Rome even needs. 2Mac. 12 does not even teach purgatory or praying to the departed, only prayer for the dead - who died due to mortal sin, which Rome says have no hope.

Luther used the later Hebrew canon without the Septuagint books. Martin Luther, along with the Jews in 100 A.D. in creating the Palestinian canon, actually discarded the books because they supported Catholic doctrines.

More parroted propaganda. 2 Mac. 12 was what he rejected due to it even invoked for support of Rome, but which was indeed one of the disputed books, and thus Rome canonized it in order to support RC doctrine.

That FACT is that there was no infallible indisputable infallible complete canon for Luther or anyone to dissent from until after his death, while scholarly doubt and disagreement over whether apocryphal books, including Maccabees, and some others continued down thru the centuries and right into Trent . Nor did Luther not include them in his Bible, though in a separate section, as per an established tradition.

"The Tridentine decrees from which the above list is extracted was the first infallible and effectually promulgated pronouncement on the Canon, addressed to the Church Universal.(Catholic Encyclopedia, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm;

Luther’s excuse was that the disputed Greek books had no Hebrew counterparts

Actually, Luther had strong Catholic scholarly support.

n the Latin Church, all through the Middle Ages [5th century to the 15th century] we find evidence of hesitation about the character of the deuterocanonicals. There is a current friendly to them, another one distinctly unfavourable to their authority and sacredness, while wavering between the two are a number of writers whose veneration for these books is tempered by some perplexity as to their exact standing, and among those we note St. Thomas Aquinas. Few are found to unequivocally acknowledge their canonicity. The prevailing attitude of Western medieval authors is substantially that of the Greek Fathers. (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm)

Anastasius (c. 367) of Antioch in the 4th century also considered the apocryphal book inferior in quality, and held to the Palestinian canon except that he included Baruch (Jeremiah’s scribe) and omitted Esther (which never actually mentions God and it canonicity disputed among Jews for some time).

Gregory of Nazianzus (330 – 390) concurred with the canon of Anastasius.

The list of O.T. books by the Council of Laodicea (363) may have been added later, and is that of Athanasius but with Esther included. It also contains the standard canon of the N.T. except that it omits Revelation, as does Cyril, thought to be due to excessive use of it by the Montanist cults

John of Damascus, eminent theologian of the Eastern Church in the 8th century, and Nicephorus, patriarch of Constantinople in the 9th century also rejected the apocrypha, as did others, in part or in whole.

The fourth century historian Euesibius also provides an early Christian list of both Old and New Testament books. In his Ecclesiastical History (written about A.D. 324), in three places quoting from Josephus, Melito and Origen, lists of the books (slightly differing) according to the Hebrew Canon. These he calls in the first place 'the Canonical Scriptures of the Old Testament, undisputed among the Hebrews;' and again,'the acknowledged Scriptures of the Old Testament;' and, lastly, 'the Holy Scriptures of the Old Testament.' In his Chronicle he distinctly separates the Books of Maccabees from the 'Divine Scriptures;' and elsewhere mentions Ecclesiasticus and Wisdom as 'controverted' books. (http://www.bible-researcher.com/eusebius.html)

Cyril of Jerusalem (d. circa. 385 AD) exhorts his readers “Of these read the two and twenty books, but have nothing to do with the apocryphal writings. Study earnestly these only which we read openly in the Church. Far wiser and more pious than thyself were the Apostles, and the bishops of old time, the presidents of the Church who handed down these books. Being therefore a child of the Church, trench thou not upon its statutes. And of the Old Testament, as we have said, study the two and twenty books, which, if thou art desirous of learning, strive to remember by name, as I recite them.” (http://www.bible-researcher.com/cyril.html)

His lists supports the canon adopted by the Protestants, combining books after the Hebrew canon and excludes the apocrypha, though he sometimes used them, as per the standard practice by which the apocrypha was printed in Protestant Bibles, and includes Baruch as part of Jeremiah.

Likewise Rufinus:

38.But it should also be known that there are other books which are called not "canonical" but "ecclesiastical" by the ancients: 5 that is, the Wisdom attributed to Solomon, and another Wisdom attributed to the son of Sirach, which the Latins called by the title Ecclesiasticus, designating not the author of the book but its character. To the same class belong the book of Tobit and the book of Judith, and the books of Maccabees.

Jerome wrote in his Prologue to the Books of the Kings,

This preface to the Scriptures may serve as a helmeted [i.e. defensive] introduction to all the books which we turn from Hebrew into Latin, so that we may be assured that what is outside of them must be placed aside among the Apocryphal writings. Wisdom, therefore, which generally bears the name of Solomon, and the book of Jesus the Son of Sirach, and Judith, and Tobias, and the Shepherd [of Hermes?] are not in the canon. The first book of Maccabees is found in Hebrew, but the second is Greek, as can be proved from the very style.

In his preface to Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Songs he also states,

As, then, the Church reads Judith, Tobit, and the books of Maccabees, but does not admit them among the canonical Scriptures, so let it read these two volumes for the edification of the people, not to give authority to doctrines of the Church.” (Shaff, Henry Wace, A Select Library of Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church, p. 492)

The Catholic Encyclopedia (in the face of ancient opposition) states,

An analysis of Jerome's expressions on the deuterocanonicals, in various letters and prefaces, yields the following results: first, he strongly doubted their inspiration; secondly, the fact that he occasionally quotes them, and translated some of them as a concession to ecclesiastical tradition, is an involuntary testimony on his part to the high standing these writings enjoyed in the Church at large, and to the strength of the practical tradition which prescribed their readings in public worship. Obviously, the inferior rank to which the deuteros were relegated by authorities like Origen, Athanasius, and Jerome, was due to too rigid a conception of canonicity, one demanding that a book, to be entitled to this supreme dignity, must be received by all, must have the sanction of Jewish antiquity, and must moreover be adapted not only to edification, but also to the "confirmation of the doctrine of the Church", to borrow Jerome's phrase. (Catholic Encyclopedia, Canon of the Old Testament; http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm)

More .

The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls contained Hebrew copies of the disputed books, nullifying that excuse.

More wishful thinking. . The materials found at Qumran were part of a library, and

these included not only the community's Bible (the Old Testament) but their library, with fragments of hundreds of books. Among these were some Old Testament Apocryphal books. The fact that no commentaries were found for an Apocryphal book, and only canonical books were found in the special parchment and script indicates that the Apocryphal books were not viewed as canonical by the Qumran community. — The Apocrypha - Part Two Dr. Norman Geisler http://www.jashow.org/Articles/_PDFArchives/theological-dictionary/TD1W0602.pd

Would you rather use a Martin Luther truncated OT, or an OT containing all 46 books, the one that was used by Jesus, the New Testament Writers, and the early Church?

All allegations based upon dubious or fallacious claims, while even the Catholic Encyclopedia (Canon of the Old Testament) affirms, “the protocanonical books of the Old Testament correspond with those of the Bible of the Hebrews, and the Old Testament as received by Protestants.” “...the Hebrew Bible, which became the Old Testament of Protestantism.” (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm)

The fact is that the the Scribes and Pharisees sat in Moses seat, and the evidence is that they held to the shorter Palestinian canon, and had no conflict with Christ who only quoted from that tripartite canon, which best corresponds to Lk. 24.

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (Luke 24:44)

Would you rather use the OT that was used by Jesus indeed!

Martin Luther played fast and loose with the bible and thought he could get away with it. At one point he even added the word alone to Romans 3:28 strictly on his own authority, but the discrepancy was discovered quickly.

More ignorance. Many RC writers also did likewise. The Roman Catholic writer Joseph A. Fitzmyer points out that Luther was not the only one to translate Romans 3:28 with the word “alone.”

At 3:28 Luther introduced the adv. “only” into his translation of Romans (1522), “alleyn durch den Glauben” (WAusg 7.38); cf. Aus der Bibel 1546, “alleine durch den Glauben” (WAusg, DB 7.39); also 7.3-27 (Pref. to the Epistle). See further his Sendbrief vom Dolmetschen, of 8 Sept. 1530 (WAusg 30.2 [1909], 627-49; “On Translating: An Open Letter” [LuthW 35.175-202]). Although “alleyn/alleine” finds no corresponding adverb in the Greek text, two of the points that Luther made in his defense of the added adverb were that it was demanded by the context and that sola was used in the theological tradition before him.

Robert Bellarmine listed eight earlier authors who used sola (Disputatio de controversiis: De justificatione 1.25 [Naples: G. Giuliano, 1856], 4.501-3):

Origen, Commentarius in Ep. ad Romanos, cap. 3 (PG 14.952).

Many more .

166 posted on 02/11/2015 8:36:39 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: paladinan; metmom
Perhaps you can explain to me why St. James says that STEADFASTNESS (not Scripture) will make one *perfect* (Gk. "teleois": a far stronger word than 2 Timothy 3:16-17 uses) and lacking in NOTHING? Should I start a movement called "sola stabilitas" (steadfastness alone)? I hardly think so... but I'd have a better case for it than you have for using 2 Timothy to prove "sola Scriptura".

A specious argument, which is responded to here , among other things. Time for bed now.

167 posted on 02/11/2015 8:40:48 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: daniel1212

bokmark


168 posted on 02/11/2015 8:48:53 PM PST by Pelham (WWIII. Islam vs the West)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear; paladinan
paladinan:  ">>look at your left hand. Do you have a wedding ring there?<<"

CynicalBear:  "NO, nor would I be using it in my service to God if I did."

"Deuteronomy 12:30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, "How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same." 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God"


=============================================================

Does the Holy Spirit, using that "Sola Scriptura", guide certain Protestants, like Calvinist Pastor R. C. Sproul, Evangelist Rev. Billy Graham, Preacher Jimmy Swaggart, Preacher John Ankerberg, Preacher John Hagee, The Late Pastor Jerry Falwell , Preacher Kenneth Copeland, and Pastor Rick Warren, to one understanding of the meaning of the Holy Scriptures in regards to the rightness or wrongness of wearing a "pagan-inspired" wedding ring, and you, CynicalBear to a contradictory, completely incompatible conclusion, in your own personal understanding of the Holy Scriptures regarding that same issue?

In other words, does the Holy Spirit give different Protestants opposite, contradictory, and completely incompatible understandings of the Holy Scriptures, and of what is right and what is wrong, and various other teachings?

(CynicalBear, please take special note of all these "pagan-inspired" wedding rings these men (and this lady) are wearing, all being worn in direct contradiction to what you say the Holy Spirit taught you personally about that matter from your own study of the Holy Scriptures. Maybe these guys didn't study the Scriptures as much (or as effectively) as you did, or maybe they just didn't ask the Holy Spirit to guide their Scripture studies properly, like you did, huh?)

Protestant Pastor R. C. Sproul





Wedding of Ruth Bell and Rev. Billy Graham





Protestant Preacher Jimmy Swaggart





Protestant Preacher John Ankerberg (this thread's article is from his website)





Protestant Preacher John Hagee





The Late Pastor Jerry Falwell





Protestant Preacher - Kenneth Copeland





Protestant Pastor - Rick Warren


(The Holy Spirit does not teach contradictory, incompatible truths/untruths like that. Human beings, using "Sola Scriptura" and their own private biblical interpretations, do.)

Goodnight to all, and may God bless all of us with a better understanding of His Holy Will.

169 posted on 02/11/2015 8:51:50 PM PST by Heart-Rest ("Our hearts are restless, Lord, until they rest in Thee." - St. Augustine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: YHAOS; betty boop; marron; metmom; xzins; RnMomof7
No doubt it will be an interesting thread. Thanks for the ping!

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. - Matt 4:4

I am that bread of life. - John 6:48

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. – John 6:63

In these debates it often comes down to "who do you believe?" As for me, the answer is: I believe God.

170 posted on 02/11/2015 9:36:26 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
I am a Catholic who puts the Bible FIRST.

If that is true, then why are you a Catholic?

171 posted on 02/11/2015 9:59:26 PM PST by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7

Another good one to keep. Thanks!


172 posted on 02/11/2015 10:34:25 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is interpreted Peter (Petros.


Ok, so if Cephas is a rock then petros would have to be a rock, if not then some ones interpretation is wrong, is that agreed?


173 posted on 02/11/2015 11:04:00 PM PST by ravenwolf (s letters scripture.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; RnMomof7
Yes, the Scriptures contain divine revelation, but the Scriptures require an authority to determine what constitutes Scripture.

No, ALL Scripture is God-breathed - that's what Paul said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, it doesn't just "contain" it. The authority is inherent IN Scripture because of that. Nothing that comes from man can be in authority OVER Scripture. God is who determines what is Scripture because it comes from Him. All we must do is obey and be in submission to what He tells us. We don't get to sit in judgment deciding what is or isn't from God. He holds us accountable for what He has spoken.

History and Scripture tells us that Christ’s Church is “the pillar and foundation of truth.”

Pillars and foundations/buttresses SUPPORT the truth, they don't invent, create or build the truth. Therefore, any assembly of believers must first know the truth and then continue to teach it without wavering if they are to BE one with Christ and partakers of His ministry.

174 posted on 02/11/2015 11:25:42 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: MamaB

I’ll be praying for you, too!


175 posted on 02/11/2015 11:40:29 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 151 | View Replies]

To: daniel1212

I gets rather tiring to have to constantly repeat the same evidence that disputes their dubious claims, doesn’t it? What do you think is the reason why some pretend they have never heard anything different than what they parrot from their “apologists”? I’ve yet to read anyone discredit what you have posted here. It is becoming almost comical how many times the SAME posters post the SAME falsehoods - seemingly oblivious to how wrong they actually are. Is it because the truth is too hard to bear or they refuse to believe their vaunted “experts” are lying to them?


176 posted on 02/11/2015 11:50:24 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl
Me, 2! ☺
177 posted on 02/11/2015 11:52:09 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: OneWingedShark; Zuriel

http://biblehub.com/john/1-18.htm

Young’s Literal Translation
God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father — he did declare.

Here is a link to the Greek.
http://biblehub.com/text/john/1-18.htm

The phrase, *God the Son* does not appear in that verse. Jesus is referred to as the *only begotten*.


178 posted on 02/12/2015 2:27:52 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 159 | View Replies]

To: bike800
Which we only know about because it is written in the letters of the bible ...that who assembled again?

It's absolutely irrelevant who assembled the Bible.

Assembling the Bible is no feat of genius. Someone would have done it sometime.

Nor does simply compiling Scripture together in one handy volume by default grant someone the authority or right to interpret it, especially after 2,000 years.

Those people are long dead.

All those churches in Revelation which did not hold true to Christ are no more. Spiritual integrity in the past is no guarantee of it continuing, and based on the sordid history of Catholicism, it didn't.

179 posted on 02/12/2015 2:31:53 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: bike800
Given the amount of confusion and myriad interpretations of said scripture...it would seem the the utter inferiority of man has made a mess of Christi’s plea that “they all might be one flock” instead we have umpteen different views of what is correct...what isn’t...what is importAnt and what isn’t... As if God said “ I am going to inspire these guys to write my word...but all generations are on their own to decide how to interpret it...all with eternal consequences in the balance

Give us ONE an example of a verse of the myriads of interpretations that has resulted in so much confusion that has spiritual consequences.

Show us umpteen different views on that verse. Pick one yourself.

So far as I've seen, no one verse has more than two, or at the most three possible interpretations and usually one of them is a very weak interpretation in that the context doesn't support it, or it's in conflict with the rest of Scripture, which would disqualify it as a legitimate interpretation.

So pick one and explain why disagreeing with your interpretation would have such serious consequences (which suggests going to hell).

180 posted on 02/12/2015 2:37:33 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 781-782 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson