Posted on 02/03/2015 5:32:17 PM PST by 9thLife
The "Real Presence" of Jesus in the Eucharist is rooted in Christ's own teachings.
When Jesus taught about the Eucharist, he spoke with a profound realism. At the Last Supper, he didn't say, "This is a symbol of my body." He said, "This is my body…" And when he gave his most in-depth teaching on the Eucharist, he spoke in a very realistic way — in a way that makes clear that the Eucharist is not just a symbol of Jesus, but is his flesh and blood made sacramentally present.
Let's enter into that dramatic scene, known as "The Bread of Life Discourse" in John's Gospel chapter six. Jesus had just performed his greatest miracle so far, multiplying loaves and fish to feed 5,000 people. The crowds are in awe. They declare him to be the great "prophet who is to come" and want to carry him off to make him king (John 6:14-15).
But the very next day, Jesus says something that sends his public approval ratings plummeting, something that makes those same raving fans now oppose him. Even some of his own disciples will walk away from him. What does Jesus say that was so controversial? He taught about partaking of his body and blood in the Eucharist. Jesus first says, "I am the bread of life…the true bread come down from heaven" (John 6:35). And he makes clear that he is not bread in some vague, figurative sense. He concludes, "…and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh" (John 6:51).
The people are shocked at this. They say, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" (John 6:52).
The Jews listening that day don't take Jesus as speaking metaphorically, as if we are to somehow only symbolically eat of his flesh. They understand Jesus very well. They know he is speaking realistically here, and that's why they are appalled.
Now here's the key: Jesus has every opportunity to clarify his teaching. But notice how that's precisely what he doesn't do. He doesn't back up and say, "Oh wait…I'm sorry…You misunderstood. I was only speaking metaphorically here!" He doesn't soften his teaching, saying "You just need to nourish yourself on my teaching, my wisdom, my love." Jesus does just the opposite. He uses even more graphic, more intense language to drive his point home: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you" (John 6:53). And he goes on to underscore how essential partaking of his body and blood is for our salvation.
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (6:54-55).
In fact, Jesus now uses a word for "eat" that has even greater graphic intensity — trogein, which means to chew or gnaw — not a word that would be used figuratively here!
This is not the language of someone speaking metaphorically. Jesus wants to give us his very body and blood in the Eucharist. In fact, Jesus now uses a word for "eat" that has even greater graphic intensity — trogein, which means to chew or gnaw — not a word that would be used figuratively here!
So challenging is this teaching that even many of Christ's disciples are bewildered, saying "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" (John 6:60). Indeed, Christ's words on the Eucharist were too much for some of them to believe. Many of his disciples rejected Jesus over this teaching and left him (John 6:66). And Jesus let them go. He didn't chase after them, saying, "Wait! You misunderstood me." They understood quite well that Jesus was speaking about eating his flesh and blood, and they rejected this teaching. That's why Jesus let them go.
So it's clear that Jesus wants to give us his Body and Blood in the Eucharist. But we still must ask, why? In the Jewish, Biblical worldview of Jesus' day, the body is an expression of the whole person and the life is in the blood. So by giving us his Body and Blood in the Eucharist, Jesus is giving his very life to us, and he wants to unite himself to us in the most intimate way possible. He wants to fill us with his life and heal us of our wounds, strengthen us in his love change us to become more and more like him. That's the life-transforming power of the Eucharist in our lives. In Holy Communion, we have the most profound union with Our Lord Jesus Christ that we can have here on earth.
Misunderstanding the meaning of "eternity" on your part does not indicate duplicity on our part.
You have made the common mistake of assuming "eternity" looks like a timeline that goes to infinity in both directions: that is incorrect.
"Eternity" stands outside that timeline completely with the concept of sequential events collapsing completely.
Again you err because of your assumptions. You assume "Apostle" is the same as "disciple." Jesus had many more "disciples" than "the twelve."
The Scripture clearly states in verse 67 many disciples left at that point.
Clintonian parsing facilitated by cognitive dissonance does not constitute an "objective reading." That it can is the only idiocy going on here.
Iscool: That obviously is what you guys are hoping, so the sham won't be revealed......
Maybe it is difficult for non-Christians to understand a God who suffered for us and who died, was buried and rose again, a Living God. I would suggest ignoring the Surahs and read the Bible.
Maybe it is difficult for non-Christians to understand a God who suffered for us and who died, was buried and rose again, a Living God. I would suggest ignoring the Surahs and read the Bible.
The Scripture clearly states in verse 67 many disciples left at that point.
Actually it was verse 66...
And it was verse 56 where they were instructed to eat Jesus' flesh...They did not leave after verse 56...Many things were said by Jesus between 56 and 67, when they actually left...
Your deniability is astounding...All you have to do is read it...
So there is no past nor future...Everything is happening right now...The Creation is right now...Me or you being in heaven is happening right now...The Red Sea is opening right now...We haven't even been created yet, right now...
Jesus is being born today, right now...
I guess you have to be a student of Plato or one of them real thinkers to get that one...
Curious thing tho...God put 'was' in the bible 3638 times...And he said shall be/will be 2161 times...Why didn't God just use is, am, and are in the scriptures...???
I don't buy your theory...
Hey, I don't mind posting the facts AGAIN...
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Joh 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Joh 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
Joh 6:59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
Joh 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
Joh 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Joh 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Jesus said 'eat my flesh' in verse 56...No one left until verse 66...You want to deny that again??? Go ahead and look stupid, not my problem...
Jesus still said “This is “MY Body” and This is “MY Blood”
Eat and Drink it for your salvation.
You believe what you want, but many left because they didn't believe these words, just like many non Catholics don't believe them today.
May God be Merciful to you as you seem to reject Him and His Word.
Aren't you the one that claimed nobody left?
Its not a theory: it's physics. "Time" is a physical property. It is directly related to mass and acceleration.
That you have made, and continue to make, unjustified assumptions regarding the natures of time and eternity, assumptions that would prove dispositive to your theological assertions, is not my problem: it's yours. Not the least of which is because I just told you which constitutes a witness.
You'll have to answer for discounting it, not me.
You can't show where a single person left because of those words...
So everything goes by your opinion and your facts that they left because the sentence is 10 lines later. Wow you are brillant.
Well genius, going the way of your perversion of scripture you could just as easily say, 'Jesus was born in a manger and was beat almost lifeless and they hung him on a cross'...It's the same principle you use on clueless Catholics...
All you have to do is ignore a few lines of scripture in between those truths...
Really...How about you get some time, put it in a box and send it to me...
1Ti_6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
If you read it in context and have a little common sense, and listen to the experts and the sacred tradition, then you may be able to intrepet it correctly.
Your opinion, I presume to support your non Catholic theory is such a foul ball is not even in the ballpark.
Your last comments sounds personal almost venomous. However, you continue to reject the exact words of Jesus. I really hope the Holy Spirit can give you God’s meaning.
I really want to understand the Truth and I hope you want to also understand the Truth.
So I need a little humanist philosophical wisdom, some so-called Catholic experts and the traditions of men, I can get it eh???
So let's see...I have the words of God in one hand, and in the other I have the words of fallen men on your pagan religion...Sorry but that one's too easy for me...
Your opinion, I presume to support your non Catholic theory is such a foul ball is not even in the ballpark.
Opinion??? I posted the scripture...And if you can read a newspaper, you can surely read the scriptures...
I really want to understand the Truth
You'll never understand the truth til you first decide to believe it...I posted the truth of the scriptures to you...If you choose not to believe the scriptures you'll continue to be just as blind as a bat coming in backwards...
How about you stop quoting Scripture to hide your ignorance of that to which Scripture refers.
I hope you want to also understand the Truth.
A lost cause. You can keep repeating your opinion and your blasts at the Catholic Church, but you haven’t done anything except express your personal incorrect biased opinion. You can quote the Bible and still not understand the meaning of the words.
By the way, I have bats on my property and they eat very well and eliminate most of the mosquitoes. What did Jesus say about the blind?
We all understand that your religion has convinced you guys that YOU can't understand the words of scripture and that no one besides 'them' can understand the scriptures...And that just amazes me...If you can understand what I'm writing, you can understand the scriptures...And I can understand the scriptures and so can everyone else...
Eph_3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Can you understand that verse??? I certainly can...
So, are you implying that my theology is “shallow”? If so, how?
No, you and I both know that he books of the bible did not just “fall from the sky”. I am well aware of how we got the bible we have today, I am not uneducated in this area of study.
The problem of the catholic church is that it has introduced many rituals from pagan sources over about 16-1700 years, if you would take the time to check this for your self you would see that these things draw our attention away from God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit and focus our attention on men.
I do not question your sincerity of belief. It is the doctrines and traditions of the catholic church that I question. It is those doctrines that I find no basis of support within the authority and soundness of scripture.
We do not have the apostles here anymore to tell us of what was not written in scripture, but we do have the bible, the new testament in particular that is their written testimony of what they saw and heard, that is what we have to measure all doctrine and teaching by today. So I will stand by what is recorded in the bible and that alone as I know whom its author is...God.
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