Posted on 02/03/2015 5:32:17 PM PST by 9thLife
The "Real Presence" of Jesus in the Eucharist is rooted in Christ's own teachings.
When Jesus taught about the Eucharist, he spoke with a profound realism. At the Last Supper, he didn't say, "This is a symbol of my body." He said, "This is my body…" And when he gave his most in-depth teaching on the Eucharist, he spoke in a very realistic way — in a way that makes clear that the Eucharist is not just a symbol of Jesus, but is his flesh and blood made sacramentally present.
Let's enter into that dramatic scene, known as "The Bread of Life Discourse" in John's Gospel chapter six. Jesus had just performed his greatest miracle so far, multiplying loaves and fish to feed 5,000 people. The crowds are in awe. They declare him to be the great "prophet who is to come" and want to carry him off to make him king (John 6:14-15).
But the very next day, Jesus says something that sends his public approval ratings plummeting, something that makes those same raving fans now oppose him. Even some of his own disciples will walk away from him. What does Jesus say that was so controversial? He taught about partaking of his body and blood in the Eucharist. Jesus first says, "I am the bread of life…the true bread come down from heaven" (John 6:35). And he makes clear that he is not bread in some vague, figurative sense. He concludes, "…and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh" (John 6:51).
The people are shocked at this. They say, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" (John 6:52).
The Jews listening that day don't take Jesus as speaking metaphorically, as if we are to somehow only symbolically eat of his flesh. They understand Jesus very well. They know he is speaking realistically here, and that's why they are appalled.
Now here's the key: Jesus has every opportunity to clarify his teaching. But notice how that's precisely what he doesn't do. He doesn't back up and say, "Oh wait…I'm sorry…You misunderstood. I was only speaking metaphorically here!" He doesn't soften his teaching, saying "You just need to nourish yourself on my teaching, my wisdom, my love." Jesus does just the opposite. He uses even more graphic, more intense language to drive his point home: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you" (John 6:53). And he goes on to underscore how essential partaking of his body and blood is for our salvation.
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (6:54-55).
In fact, Jesus now uses a word for "eat" that has even greater graphic intensity — trogein, which means to chew or gnaw — not a word that would be used figuratively here!
This is not the language of someone speaking metaphorically. Jesus wants to give us his very body and blood in the Eucharist. In fact, Jesus now uses a word for "eat" that has even greater graphic intensity — trogein, which means to chew or gnaw — not a word that would be used figuratively here!
So challenging is this teaching that even many of Christ's disciples are bewildered, saying "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" (John 6:60). Indeed, Christ's words on the Eucharist were too much for some of them to believe. Many of his disciples rejected Jesus over this teaching and left him (John 6:66). And Jesus let them go. He didn't chase after them, saying, "Wait! You misunderstood me." They understood quite well that Jesus was speaking about eating his flesh and blood, and they rejected this teaching. That's why Jesus let them go.
So it's clear that Jesus wants to give us his Body and Blood in the Eucharist. But we still must ask, why? In the Jewish, Biblical worldview of Jesus' day, the body is an expression of the whole person and the life is in the blood. So by giving us his Body and Blood in the Eucharist, Jesus is giving his very life to us, and he wants to unite himself to us in the most intimate way possible. He wants to fill us with his life and heal us of our wounds, strengthen us in his love change us to become more and more like him. That's the life-transforming power of the Eucharist in our lives. In Holy Communion, we have the most profound union with Our Lord Jesus Christ that we can have here on earth.
As I said -- the Sacrifice was once in time.
Sorry Kelly, but Lutherans see the Body and Blood are being present in the Eucharist. quoting from the www.lcms.org site The clear claim of Christ in Holy Scripture is that His true body and blood are truly present and distributed to those who eat..., it is wrong to reject Christ's clear words simply because our fallen human reason cannot fully understand how it comes to pass. Any effort to make the "This is" something less than a clear word, as Reformed theology does by denying the real presence of the body and blood of Christ on earth, is a departure from Christ's words
well, that post was not directed at you — there are Christian poster with whom i disagree on theological issues but they believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, GOD and savior. There are other posters who don’t believe that — not you, but others.
Now, this might be difficult for believers in so-called Tawahid to believe that God became man, but it is true.
Prove it. Just your personal opinion.
Why should anyone believe your twisted erroneous interpretation of God’s word? You attempt to twist the intent of clear words of God in order to support your personal opinion without any logic.
Jesus clearly restated his intentions “Amen, Amen..” that you clearly ignore.
During the Eucharist it is that we are viewing that one time action, we are present when the Sacrifice takes place with the High Priest and the Sacrifice one and the same Jesus Christ.
Perhaps the Lutherans are right to say, let us leave this as a mystery and not try to explain too much.
Why should anyone believe your twisted erroneous interpretation of God’s word? You attempt to twist the intent of clear words of God in order to support your personal opinion without any logic.
Proving it is the easiest part...But then some shysters will falsely accuse of being a personal opinion even when staring the facts in the face...
Joh 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Joh 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
Joh 6:59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
No one has left yet...
Joh 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
No one has left yet...
Joh 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
No one has left yet and Jesus continues on with the conversation...
Joh 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
No one has left yet...
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
No one has left yet...And Jesus continues to speak...
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
No one has left yet...
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
AHAaaaa...Finally Jesus told them something that was too much for them to take...And they finally left...
Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
So, without any private opinion, without any private interpretation, any idiot can see they did not leave when Jesus said to 'eat my flesh'...Your handlers have lied to you and you just continue to repeat the lie...So you'll never have to tell that story again, if you're honest...
So Jesus' suffering was once in time but he's still hanging on the Cross with spikes thru his hands, a spear hole in his side, and dies...But he's not suffering...Does he lift up his head, wink and smile at you guys???
You guys refuse to answer so far...How does eating Jesus' flesh and blood get to Jesus hanging on the Cross in your sacrifice???
Supposedly the flesh and blood you eat and drink is of the resurrected Jesus...That means the Sacrifice is over...Jesus is not on the Cross...If you are celebrating the death of Jesus, you have to be eating the flesh of the pre-resurrected Jesus...
What a tale your religion has woven...Who would believe it???
His suffering (perhaps to some others He is just a prophet, but we Christians use the capital case) was once in time.
You use the capital eh??? Perhaps that makes you feel or look like a Christian...I never do anything just because a Catholic does it...And unlike you guys, I do however let the bible be my example...
Mat_14:22 And straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away.
Every time you guys reference the scriptures, your religion comes out not looking so good...You should probably avoid the scriptures when defending your religion...
That obviously is what you guys are hoping, so the sham won't be revealed...
Your comment:”it were given unto him of my Father.” Finally Jesus told them something that was too much “
That was also stated in line 44 Why didn't they leave then?
Why did the Apostles stay and believe in the literal words of our Lord and put them into action when celebrating the Mass and celebrated for over 2000 years by their successors?
Since I am an idiot, then others that believe your opinion, must be so dense that nothing gets through and context with all the words has no meaning. No matter what it still your personal opinion in how you interpret the words of Jesus. At lease Catholics have the wisdom and authority of the Catholic Church.
You seemed to miss lines 41, 61, 65
35 But Jesus told them, It is I who am the bread of life; he who comes to me will never be hungry, he who has faith in me will never know thirst. 36 (But you, as I have told you, though you have seen me, do not believe in me.)[6] 37 All that the Father has entrusted to me will come to me, and him who comes to me I will never cast out. 38 It is the will of him who sent me, not my own will, that I have come down from heaven to do; 39 and he who sent me would have me keep without loss, and raise up at the last day, all he has entrusted to me. 40 Yes, this is the will of him who sent me, that all those who believe in the Son when they see him should enjoy eternal life; I am to raise them up at the last day.
41 The Jews were by now complaining of his saying, I am myself the bread which has come down from heaven. 42 Is not this Jesus, they said, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother are well known to us? What does he mean by saying, I have come down from heaven?[7] 43 Jesus answered them, Do not whisper thus to one another. 44 Nobody can come to me without being attracted towards me by the Father who sent me, so that I can raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the book of the prophets, And they shall all have the Lord for their teacher;[8] everyone who listens to the Father and learns, comes to me. 46 (Not that anyone has seen the Father, except him who comes from God; he alone has seen the Father.) 47 Believe me when I tell you this; the man who has faith in me enjoys eternal life. 48 It is I who am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers, who ate manna in the desert, died none the less; 50 the bread which comes down from heaven is such that he who eats of it never dies. 51 I myself am the living bread that has come down from heaven. 52 If anyone eats of this bread, he shall live for ever. And now, what is this bread which I am to give? It is my flesh, given for the life of the world.
53 Then the Jews fell to disputing with one another, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 54 Whereupon Jesus said to them, Believe me when I tell you this; you can have no life in yourselves, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink his blood. 55 The man who eats my flesh and drinks my blood enjoys eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 56 My flesh is real food, my blood is real drink. 57 He who eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, lives continually in me, and I in him. 58 As I live because of the Father, the living Father who has sent me, so he who eats me will live, in his turn, because of me. 59 Such is the bread which has come down from heaven; it is not as it was with your fathers, who ate manna and died none the less; the man who eats this bread will live eternally.
60 He said all this while he was teaching in the synagogue, at Capharnaum. 61 And there were many of his disciples who said, when they heard it, This is strange talk, who can be expected to listen to it? 62 But Jesus, inwardly aware that his disciples were complaining over it, said to them, Does this try your faith? 63 What will you make of it, if you see the Son of Man ascending to the place where he was before? 64 Only the spirit gives life; the flesh is of no avail; and the words I have been speaking to you are spirit, and life.[9] 65 But there are some, even among you, who do not believe. Jesus knew from the first which were those who did not believe, and which of them was to betray him. 66 And he went on to say, That is what I meant when I told you that nobody can come to me unless he has received the gift from my Father. 67 After this, many of his disciples went back to their old ways, and walked no more in his company. 68 Whereupon Jesus said to the twelve, Would you, too, go away? 69 Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom should we go? Thy words are the words of eternal life; 70 we have learned to believe, and are assured that thou art the Christ, the Son of God.[10] 71 Jesus answered them, Have I not chosen all twelve of you? And one of you is a devil. 72 He was speaking of Judas son of Simon, the Iscariot, who was one of the twelve, and was to betray him.
No, His Sacrifice is eternal.
He never did and people who aren't under a strong delusion instantly see the difference whether they agree that that continues beyond that single occasion or not.
have a nice day
Catholic Doctrine has always that that His sacrifice is a single, eternal, sacrifice.
I realize the anti-Catholic dolts and the majority of Protestant or Protestant derived folks don't really believe Christ is supernatural, though, so anything that requires divine intervention is basically impossible in their view.
That's why, since they've already denied the power of the Holy Spirit by throwing out part of sacred Scripture, they don't understand that the when the Eucharist is presented it's part and parcel of the exact same, single occurrence, sacrifice.
Only the RCC attributes to Christ a miracle that doesn't look like a miracle. The wine really does change into the blood of Christ ... but it just doesn't look like it. It still looks like wine, but its not.
Reminds me of all the times Jesus said 'be healed' and the inflicted person was healed but didn't look like it ...
oh wait ... never mind, that never happened.
Jesus Christ Himself said, This is my body and I stand with Christ rather than walking away.
Anyone who wants to deny what Christ Himself said is free to do so and walk away exactly like everyone except the Apostles did when Christ explained that He was speaking literally, not figuratively.
If Christianity has been right for 2000 years those who twist His words have been calling Jesus Christ a liar every time they twist His Word by saying it's mere symbolism.
John 6:56 "For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed."
It's interesting how the people who claim to rely on "Faith Alone" consistently display their inability to have faith in Christ every time they deny the supernatural reality of His body and His blood being real in the Eucharist. Just like they deny "Scripture Alone" by throwing out a large portion of the Old Testament and denying clear statements by Christ Himself.
Side with Jesus Christ being all powerful and capable something you may not understand even when it's hard to accept or don't.
Have a nice day
Or when you were "born again?"
I find it instructive to note how mockery is so often the vehicle of Protestant “debate.”
They didn't...They never suggested they took Jesus literally when he said, 'eat my flesh'...
As for putting that statement into action, that didn't happen for hundreds of years, after Constantine started your religion...
Posting all of that doesn't help you position...No one left after Jesus told them to eat his flesh...You can't seem to admit that even tho it's right in the scriptures...Without personal opinion...Without private interpretation...
Then he never came up off the Cross...
If his resurrection is eternal, and his sacrifice is eternal, then his birth must be eternal as well...Jesus is being born today...
You guys just make it up for the benefit of your religion...There is nothing in the scriptures that says Jesus' sacrifice is eternal...In fact, it says just the opposite...
And actually, eternal means no beginning nor ending...So for your religion to say that Jesus' sacrifice is eternal, you are saying Jesus's sacrifice didn't start 2000 years ago, Jesus has been being sacrificed on the Cross since before the Creation...Don't you people even think about the legitimacy of this stuff???
What planet do you live on?
You can’t make up your own facts.
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