The Absurdity of Separated Brethren

Beggars All ^ | February 11, 2009 | "carrie"

[RnMomof7]

The Absurdity of Separated Brethren

Before Protestants were "separated brethren"...

Q. Does the Lord make use of apostate Catholics, such as Martin Luther, Calvin, John Knox, Henry VIII., King of England, to reform the manners of the people?

A. The thought is absurd. The lives of those men were evil, and it is only the devil that makes use of them to pervert the people still more. The Lord makes use of His saints, such as a St. Francis of Assisium, a St. Dominick, a St. Ignatius, a St. Alphonsus, to convert the people and reform their evil manners by explaining to them the truths of faith, the commandments, and the necessity of receiving the sacraments with proper dispositions, and by setting them in their own lives the loftiest example of faith, purity, and all Christian virtues.

Q. Are there any other reasons to show that heretics, or Protestants who die out of the Roman Catholic Church, are not saved?

A. There are several. They cannot be saved, because

1. They have no divine faith.

2. They make a liar of Jesus Christ, of the Holy Ghost, and of the Apostles.

3. They have no faith in Christ.

4. They fell away from the true Church of Christ.

5. They are too proud to submit to the Pope, the Vicar of Christ.

6. They cannot perform any good works whereby they can obtain heaven.

7. They do not receive the Body and Blood of Christ.

8. They die in their sins.

9. They ridicule and blaspheme the Mother of God and His saints.

10. They slander the spouse of Jesus Christ —:the Catholic Church.

Q. What is the act of faith of a Protestant?

A. O my God, I believe nothing except what my own private judgment tells me to believe; therefore I believe that I can interpret Thy written word—the Holy Scriptures —as I choose. I believe that the Pope is anti-Christ; that any man can be saved, provided he is an honest man; I believe that faith alone is sufficient for salvation; that good works, and works of penance, and the confession of sins are not necessary, etc.

Q. Have Protestants any faith in Christ?

A. They never had.

Q. Why not?

A. Because there never lived such a Christ as they imagine and believe in.

Q. In what kind of a Christ do they believe?

A. In such a one of whom they can make a liar, with impunity, whose doctrine they can interpret as they please, and who does not care about what a man believes, provided he be an honest man before the public.

Q. Will such a faith in such a Christ save Protestants?

A. No sensible man will assert such an absurdity.

Familiar Explanation of Christian Doctrine
For the Family and More Advanced Students in Catholic Schools (1875)
(pgs 70, 91-93, 97-98; with imprimatur)

\e="author "name">Carrie at

4:33 PM

[editor-surveyor]

Yes, they knew the Hebrew scriptures, from hearing them read every Sabbath day of their lives, but that hearing does not translate to being able to write. Remember how they all marveled that Yeshua could read the scrolls?

The aramaic stuff came a generation after they died, when the gospel was spreading in Syria. There was little aramaic influence in Judea. The Maccabees should convince you of that fact.

[dartuser]

The LXX was injected when their original writings were translated into Greek

OK, that got me caught up ...

You believe the NT was not written in Greek, but Hebrew ...

I would suppose you are patiently waiting for any one of these original Hebrew MSS to be discovered.

OK, thanks for the clarification ... I know where you are coming from now.

[ealgeone]

>“So get off your high horse.”<

Hate to break it to you but Christ only founded one Church, and it isn’t your sect.

Christ didn't start Christianity....wow....that's revealing.

[ealgeone]

Matthew was the only literate disciple, being a Cohen.

You base this on what exactly?

[vladimir998]

“You must have a lot of time on your hands to keep up this charade of a discussion.”

At the very least it would take two for a charade of a discussion. Take a good hard look at yourself.

“I posted NO falsehoods.”

Yes, you did.

Example:

“Catholic anti-Protestants, being not well enough educated about things Christian as taught in the Holy Scriptures, often make mistakes such as concluding Jesus and the Apostles were liars when they said such things as...”

Concluded that Jesus and the Apostles were liars? That’s clearly a falsehood.

“You unbelievably even continue to assert that Luther removed books from “his” Bible”

Did he or did he not do the following two things:

1) Remove the Deutercanonicals from the canon by his own fiat.

2) Degrade NT books - such as James - from the canon by denying that they were of Apostolic authorship. There’s even a specific term for the grouping of NT books by Luther which he considered to not be scripture: http://www.bible-researcher.com/antilegomena.html

“You can’t back it up, can you? EXACTLY!”

Placing books within a volume does not mean you grant those books the same status as scripture. I had a vulgate that had books in the appendix. They’re not viewed as scripture. Luther cut books from the Bible. The fact that they were physically present in the volume doesn’t mean he considered them canonical. Again, the appendix in my vulgate had books in it that were viewed by scripture.

[vladimir998]

“As opposed to a much stronger relationship between Catholicism and socialism, espoused by the leader of Catholicism.”

No. A parent - child relationship is much strong than a coincidental relationship of several goals or principles.

[xone]

But that isn’t what we are talking about. Socialism’s greatest religious ally is the Catholic church’s hierarchy.

[vladimir998]

“Remember how they all marveled that Yeshua could read the scrolls?”

No. I do remember when the JEWS marveled that Jesus had learning (John 7:15). I think that would mean those OUTSIDE of Jesus’ circle of Disciples. They might simply have presumed a carpenter would not have learning. Jesus was not just a carpenter. Either way this tells us nothing about what the Apostles did or did not know.

“The aramaic stuff came a generation after they died, when the gospel was spreading in Syria. There was little aramaic influence in Judea. The Maccabees should convince you of that fact.”

No. Aramaic was a lingua franca for much of the region for centuries already. Jesus is shown to have used it in the gospels. It was very likely His first language.

[vladimir998]

“Christ didn’t start Christianity....wow....that’s revealing.”

You believe Christ didn’t start Christianity? It must be you because I said nothing of the sort. Mind you, I would not be surprised to see an anti-Catholic yet again resort to less than honest comments about what a Catholic would say. After all:

“If you would have some direct downright proof that Catholicism is what Protestants make it to be, something which will come up to the mark, you must lie... To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation.” (John Henry Newman, Lecture 4. True Testimony Insufficient for the Protestant View)

[vladimir998]

“But that isn’t what we are talking about. Socialism’s greatest religious ally is the Catholic church’s hierarchy.”

No, Socialism’s greatest ally is the mass media.

[xone]

Mass media despite the appearances is not a religion.

[vladimir998]

“Mass media despite the appearances is not a religion.”

I didn’t say it was.

[ealgeone]

v: We have Christ and the Holy Spirit.

e: Hate to break this news to you but all Christians have Christ and the Holy Spirit. So get off your high horse.

v: Hate to break it to you but Christ only founded one Church, and it isn’t your sect.

e: Christ didn't start Christianity....wow....that's revealing.

v:You believe Christ didn’t start Christianity? It must be you because I said nothing of the sort. Mind you, I would not be surprised to see an anti-Catholic yet again resort to less than honest comments about what a Catholic would say. After all:

Sorry, pal. Your attempt at twisting the conversation doesn't play here.

You implication that anyone not in the roman catholic church is not a Christian is ludicrous and goes against the Word as well. Not surprising for catholicism though.

To be clear for you....anyone who believes Christ died for their sins is a Christian. As Paul told the jailer in Acts 16:31,"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household".

Notice what he didn't say, "now go out and join the roman catholic church!" That must be in your translation because it isn't in any translation I can find.

Matter of fact, no where does the Bible ever tell us we have to be a member of the roman catholic church to be saved. That's only man-made roman catholic cult teaching.

From pope boniface viii (1302): Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.

Bible says:

11For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD (Romans 14:11 NASB)

[vladimir998]

“Sorry, pal. Your attempt at twisting the conversation doesn’t play here.”

Sometimes I think anti-Catholics have little or no conscience. After all, how else can someone say the quoted comment above and yet have just said the following completely fallacious comment below as well:

“Christ didn’t start Christianity....wow....that’s revealing.”

And there’s this obvious misrepresentation:

“You implication that anyone not in the roman catholic church is not a Christian is ludicrous and goes against the Word as well.”

I never once implied, EVER OR ANYWHERE, that those not in the Church cannot be Christian. The catechism makes no such claim and neither do I. I have made this clear numerous times. None of that will stop an anti-Catholic from saying otherwise, however.

And here is another misrepresentation:

“Not surprising for catholicism though.”

So it isn’t I who am at fault now - it’s the whole faith. And this, even though just as I just said, the catechism makes plain the exact opposite.

“If you would have some direct downright proof that Catholicism is what Protestants make it to be, something which will come up to the mark, you must lie... To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation.” (John Henry Newman, Lecture 4. True Testimony Insufficient for the Protestant View)

[editor-surveyor]

.
Keep on spreading nonsense!

The Maccabee revolt ejected all Helenist, and Aramaic soiling of Judea, and restored the altar, and the teaching of Moses.

Unfortunately it failed to eject the Pharisee rabbis.

.

[xone]

From the post you responded to:

Socialism’s greatest religious ally is the Catholic church’s hierarchy.

From the context of the statement you can see why I wondered that might be your point.

[editor-surveyor]

.
>> “You base this on what exactly?” <<

.
Reading the recorded words of Yeshua and the apostles.

[ealgeone]

I never once implied, EVER OR ANYWHERE, that those not in the Church cannot be Christian. The catechism makes no such claim and neither do I. I have made this clear numerous times. None of that will stop an anti-Catholic from saying otherwise, however.

yeah, right. your pope sure did and by de-facto you have to agree with him.

[editor-surveyor]

There are presently 28 copies of Matthew’s original gospel known to the public.

Churchians of course are repelled by these MS like vampires from a “silver cross.”

.

[dartuser]

There are presently 28 copies of Matthew’s original gospel known to the public.

Can you post the link to an online facsimile of that gospel of Matthew in Hebrew ... or any one of the epistles of Paul ... I would be very interested to translate those.