[RnMomof7]

PING

[Hostage]

Amazing compilation. Thank you.

[Salvation]

**After the apostles died, was the gospel hopelessly lost until the Reformation?**

No, Gospels were all written in the first century. As were Paul’s letters.

[kosciusko51]

After the apostles died, was the gospel hopelessly lost until the Reformation?

That certainly seems to be a common assumption in some Protestant circles today. Thankfully, it is a false assumption.

I’m not entirely sure where that misconception started. But one thing I do know: it did not come from the Protestant Reformers.

I've not heard this in the Protestant circles I encounter. Anyone have an example? Thanks!

[delchiante]

How many of those church fathers have good Friday and easter Sunday in their gospel account, that is according to Rome and not scripture- unlike Paul who taught Passover and First Fruits, according to actual scripture?

[Salvation]

The Early Church Fathers

Chart of Early Church Fathers
Remembering the Early Church
The Apostolic Fathers, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus (Ecumenical)
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Prayer is Answering the Word of God [Ecumenical]
On the Apostolic Fathers
Fathers vs. the Evangelicals
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: These Words are the Word of God [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: The Two Meanings of the Bible [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Guide to the Discovery of Scripture [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Every page of the Bible is a Hymn to Christ [Ecumenical]

The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: The Four Gospels [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: The Scriptures are one book in Christ [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on Scripture: The Nourishing Bread of Scripture [Ecumenical]
The Early Church Fathers on the Scriptures: Reading Scripture with the Early Church Fathers [Ecumenical]
Fathers of the Church
Abortion and the Early Church [Fathers] (Catholic & Orthodox Caucus)
Why do Catholics always talk about the Early Church Fathers (Apostolic Fathers)?[Ecumenical]
The Church Fathers' Marian Interpretation of the Old Testament (Catholic Caucus)
Writings of the Fathers of the Church
THE CHURCH FATHERS: A DOOR TO ROME (fundamentalist warns saying they sound too Catholic)

Were the Church Fathers Closer to Protestantism Than to Catholicism?
The Faith of Our Fathers
The Early Church Fathers on the Assumption [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Look to the Church Fathers to Shed Light on Modern Problems, Writes the Pope
Origen: The Privileged Path to Knowing God Is Love
On Origen of Alexandria: He Was a True Teacher (April 25, 2007)
St. Clement of Alexandria: One of the Great Promoters of Dialogue Between Faith and Reason (April 18, 2007)
St. Irenaeus of Lyons: The First Great Theologian of the Church (March 28, 2007)
Early Church Fathers - Worship on Sabbath or Sunday
St. Justin Martyr: He Considered Christianity the “True Philosophy” (March 21, 2007)

Truly a Doctor of Unity (St. Ignatius of Antioch) (March 14, 2007)
On St. Clement of Rome -The Church Has a Sacramental, Not Political Structure (March 7, 2007)
Quotes from the Early Church Fathers
The Early Church Fathers on Baptism - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Contraception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Justification - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on the Immaculate Conception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Confession / Reconciliation - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Real Presence - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus

The Early Church Fathers on Intercession of the Saints - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Hell - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Primacy of Peter/Rome (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
The Early Church Fathers on The Mother of God - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
The Early Church Fathers on Purgatory - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on Apostolic Succession - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Early Church Fathers on (Oral) Tradition - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Early Church Fathers on The Church (Catholic Caucus)
The Early Church Fathers

[Happy1947]

No doubt they had the written words. However, if you don’t follow them or choose to modify them then what good are the words?

[metmom]

Excellent!

Thanks for posting that.

Indeed, justification by faith is NOT a new concept.

Even Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. Justification, imputed righteousness, occurred long before the Law was given.

[redleghunter]

Thanks for posting. These are such wonderful and beautiful quotes. Praise God.

[Elsiejay]

“After the apostles died, was the gospel hopelessly lost until the Reformation?”

No, thank God, and the Reformers that sustained hope at all costs, it was not.
But the Good News was long well nigh smothered in papist error and adiaphora.

[Alex Murphy]

After the apostles died, was the gospel hopelessly lost until the Reformation? That certainly seems to be a common assumption in some Protestant circles today. Thankfully, it is a false assumption. I’m not entirely sure where that misconception started. But one thing I do know: it did not come from the Protestant Reformers.

The Reformers themselves (including Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and others) were convinced that their position was not only biblical, but also historical. In other words, they contended that both the apostles and the church fathers would have agreed with them on the heart of the gospel.

Can't wait to read the comments on this thread!

[plain talk]

great post!!! thanks

[Biggirl]

Wonderful! Thank-you and God Bless!

[ForYourChildren]

Thanks

[Campion]

You guys relentlessly pick and choose the passages from the Fathers you think support your position. You don't, for example, cite Augustine when he says that it is a sin *not* to adore the consecrated Host. You don't quote Augustine in some of his more florid prayers to Mary.

"Salvation by faith" is totally scriptural, and is Catholic dogma. "Salvation by faith *ALONE*", if you define "saving faith" as Luther did, is neither.

[Petrosius]

That someone posting these quotes thinks that they refute Catholic teaching is because he is working on a false assumption of what the Catholic Church teaches: that we merit salvation before or apart from faith. And this faith is pure grace that we do not merit by our works. Notice also that many of the quotes mention "works of the Law," i.e. the Law of Moses. Thus many of the quotes have nothing to do with the dispute between Catholicism and Protestantism. To show that the Church Fathers quoted do not support the Protestant position:

Origin

Whoever dies in his sins, even if he profess to believe in Christ, does not truly believe in Him; and even if that which exists without works be called faith, such faith is dead in itself, as we read in the Epistle bearing the name of James. (Commentaries on John, 19, 6)

St. John Chrysostom

“He that believes in the Son has everlasting life.” … “Is it enough, then to believe in the Son,” some will say, “in order to have everlasting life?” By no means! Listen to Christ declare this Himself when He says, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven”; and the blasphemy against the Spirit alone is sufficient to cast him into hell. But why should I speak of a part of our teaching? For if a man believe rightly in the Father and in the Son and in the Holy Spirit, but does not live rightly, his faith will avail him nothing toward salvation. (On John, 31, 1)

I also find the inclusion of the final quote from Bede most interesting since it is a good summation of the Catholic position:

Although the apostle Paul preached that we are justified by faith without works, those who understand by this that it does not matter whether they live evil lives or do wicked and terrible things, as long as they believe in Christ, because salvation is through faith, have made a great mistake. James here expounds how Paul’s words ought to be understood. This is why he uses the example of Abraham, whom Paul also used as an example of faith, to show that the patriarch also performed good works in the light of his faith. It is therefore wrong to interpret Paul in such a way as to suggest that it did not matter whether Abraham put his faith into practice or not. What Paul meant was that no one obtains the gift of justification on the basis of merits derived from works performed beforehand, because the gift of justification comes only from faith.

Needless to say, all those quoted also believed in a visible hierarchical church possessing the authority of the Apostle, the Catholic Mass which they celebrated, the sacraments, etc. These men were clearly Catholic and would not have recognized the Protestant faith.

[stonehouse01]

The quotes in the article from the Church Fathers reflect correct and current Catholic doctrine.

Sola gratia, which is salvation by grace alone, was affirmed by the Catholic Church in 529 A.D., almost 1,000 years before the Reformation. It has ALWAYS been and REMAINS the teaching of the Catholic Church.

Protestants accuse Catholics of works based salvation when, as the Church Fathers note, we actually do not believe in a works based salvation - Catholics believe as the Church Fathers taught; salvation is by grace alone.

The Catholic Church condemns as heresy a works alone based salvation.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church clearly states that justification comes through the grace of God.

The Church Fathers writings all contain references to the sacraments, especially the eucharist; they were Catholic beyond doubt.

The entire post is based on the false premise that the Catholic Church does not believe in sola gratia when in fact that is a false and malicious myth that Protestants spread about Catholics. This is a case of false witness.
Protestants have no authority to tell us what our doctrines when they have distorted them completely,

Faith has to contain works or it is not true Faith.

James 2: 14-24.

[sauropod]

.

[1010RD]

The word used in the NT for 'justification' is dikaíōsis and in ancient secular Greek, it is closely associated with the pressing need to be released from deserved punishment. Dikaiósis: the act of pronouncing righteous, acquittal We need a clear definition of terms. There is no work one can do to release oneself from missing the mark aka sinning. God's standard is just that high. What, then, is the message of the parable of the talents?

[Elsie]

That certainly seems to be a common assumption in some Protestant circles today.

AHhhh...

The broad brush called SOME...