Pagan Saints

The Cripplegate ^ | July 19,2012 | Nathan Busenitz

[RnMomof7]

As a church history professor, I am sometimes asked how certain practices developed in church history. For example: When did the Roman Catholic (and Eastern Orthodox) emphasis on praying to saints and venerating relics and icons begin?

A somewhat obscure, but extremely helpful, book by John Calvin answers that question directly.

In his work, A Treatise on Relics, Calvin utilizes his extensive knowledge of church history to demonstrate that prayers to the saints, prayers for the dead, the veneration of relics, the lighting of candles (in homage to the saints), and the veneration of icons are all rooted in Roman paganism. Such practices infiltrated the Christian church after Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire in the fourth century.

Here is an excerpt from Calvin’s work that summarizes his thesis:

Hero-worship is innate to human nature, and it is founded on some of our noblest feelings, — gratitude, love, and admiration, — but which, like all other feelings, when uncontrolled by principle and reason, may easily degenerate into the wildest exaggerations, and lead to most dangerous consequences. It was by such an exaggeration of these noble feelings that [Roman] Paganism filled the Olympus with gods and demigods, — elevating to this rank men who have often deserved the gratitude of their fellow-creatures, by some signal services rendered to the community, or their admiration, by having performed some deeds which required a more than usual degree of mental and physical powers.

The same cause obtained for the Christian martyrs the gratitude and admiration of their fellow-Christians, and finally converted them into a kind of demigods. This was more particularly the case when the church began to be corrupted by her compromise with Paganism [during the fourth and fifth-centuries], which having been baptized without being converted, rapidly introduced into the Christian church, not only many of its rites and ceremonies, but even its polytheism, with this difference, that the divinities of Greece and Rome were replaced by Christian saints, many of whom received the offices of their Pagan predecessors.

The church in the beginning tolerated these abuses, as a temporary evil, but was afterwards unable to remove them; and they became so strong, particularly during the prevailing ignorance of the middle ages, that the church ended up legalizing, through her decrees, that at which she did nothing but wink at first.

In a footnote, Calvin gives specific examples of how Christians saints simply became substitutes for pagan deities.

Thus St. Anthony of Padua restores, like Mercury, stolen property; St. Hubert, like Diana, is the patron of sportsmen; St. Cosmas, like Esculapius, that of physicians, etc. In fact, almost every profession and trade, as well as every place, have their especial patron saint, who, like the tutelary divinity of the Pagans, receives particular hours from his or her protégés.

You can read the entire work on Google Books.

Calvin’s treatment includes a historical overview, quotes from the church fathers, and even citations from sixteenth-century Roman Catholic scholars. The result is an air-tight case for the true origin of many Catholic practices.

Calvin’s conclusion is that these practices are nothing more than idolatrous superstitions, rooted in ancient Roman paganism. Even today, five centuries later, his work still serves as a necessary warning to those who persist in such idolatry. Hence his concluding sentence: “Now, those who fall into this error must do so willingly, as no one can from henceforth plead ignorance on the subject as their excuse.”

[Arthur McGowan]

The Catholic Church NEVER denies the authority of Scripture, as you charge. It teaches nothing that contradicts what is taught in Scripture.

What the Catholic Church denies is the man-made, unscriptural theory of “sola scriptura.”

It is not found anywhere in Scripture, and was invented by schismatics in the 15th-16th centuries.

[Arthur McGowan]

http://youtu.be/MCWe10ypkvw

[PeterPrinciple]

The Catholic Church NEVER denies the authority of Scripture, as you charge.

---

The liberals never deny the authority of the constitution, they just don’t follow it........................

[Arthur McGowan]

Martin Luther was a Catholic. Sola Scriture has been claimed as a valid Catholic description for Catholic understanding. The idea of believing the Word of God alone predates the RCC.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

[PieterCasparzen]

The Catholic Church NEVER denies the authority of Scripture, as you charge. It teaches nothing that contradicts what is taught in Scripture.

So the Roman Catholic teaching is in agreement with parts of the Bible that convey the concept of God instructing his children not to add or take away from the teachings of the Bible in both the New and Old Testament, e.g.:

Deuteronomy 12:32 "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it."

Proverbs 30

"5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

2 Thessalonians 2:15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."

Revelation 22

"18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

What the Catholic Church denies is the man-made, unscriptural theory of “sola scriptura.”

It is not found anywhere in Scripture, and was invented by schismatics in the 15th-16th centuries.

And then is Roman Catholic teaching then in agreement with not holding the traditions of men in regard over Scripture ?

Mark 7:9 "And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition."

If the Roman Catholic teaching does not add or take away from the Word of God, and if it does not include some man-made innovation that contradicts Scripture, then how is it not teaching the Bible alone (sola scriptura) ?

What is it that the Roman Catholic teachings teach other than the Bible alone ?

Some would say an example of such would be forbidding priests to marry. Can you cite the Bible verses that teach that pastors should not marry ? Or, perhaps this is one of those things that is outside of sola scriptura, so could you explain how that tradition of forbidding pastors to marry does not contradict the following Scripture:

1 Timothy 4

"1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

[Mark17]

Why would they go to the trouble of writing that something which happens to all people happened to her? It would be presumed that she died, just like every one else.

Mom, did't you see her obituary in the online edition of the Jerusalem Times Herald? I did.

:-)

[Resettozero]

My bad: “sola scriptura.”

[Elsie]

What conceivable point are you trying to make by assembling a bunch of Scripture verses that remind us that PEOPLE WROTE STUFF?

This??

From the guy that INSISTS that NOT writing stuff is REALLY important??

[Elsie]

The only thing that could prevent all potential fraudsters from claiming to have relics of Mary is that they knew that NOBODY WOULD BELIEVE THEM—because all Christians believed that Mary’s body was totally unavailable—having been assumed into heaven.

HMMMmmm...

I wonder just WHO told them THAT lie???

[Elsie]

Tell it to the people who have posted hundreds of thousands of times on FR that such-and-such MUST BE FALSE because it is not asserted in Scripture.

Tell it to the people who have posted hundreds of thousands of times on FR that such-and-such MUST BE TRUE because The church says so!

[Elsie]

It is not found anywhere in Scripture, and was invented by schismatics in the 15th-16th centuries.

Compared to...

It is not found anywhere in Scripture, and was invented by Catholics over many centuries.

[bonfire]

Here we are 5 centuries later after when you claim Christians began noticing and the RCC still clings to its traditions/unscriptural doctrines. How many more centuries must pass until the Catholic church takes note?

[metmom]

Once again, we’re back to that central mystery of Protestantism: How did it happen that a whole catalogue of monstrous heresies and idolatries were introduced into Christianity in the 3rd and 4th centuries, and virtually nobody noticed until the 16th century?

It's not that nobody noticed.

People did notice and the RCC exterminated them for exposing it.

[metmom]

R2z:Martin Luther was a Catholic. Sola Scriture has been claimed as a valid Catholic description for Catholic understanding. The idea of believing the Word of God alone predates the RCC.

AM:I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Hardly surprising......

[metmom]

The Catholic Church NEVER denies the authority of Scripture, as you charge. It teaches nothing that contradicts what is taught in Scripture.

Matthew 23: 8-10 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.

[HiTech RedNeck]

I’ve heard accusations like this before but not seen much history to back up one view or the other.

I could see that getting mixed up with Caesar would have Bad Effects. Now suddenly the city constable who worships an idol is going to have a beef with you if you admonish him about the idol but the church that stood behind his hiring finds a way to wink at the idol. The approval of man, rather than of God, jinxed the scene.

[metmom]

What conceivable point are you trying to make by assembling a bunch of Scripture verses that remind us that PEOPLE WROTE STUFF?

What conceivable point are you trying to make by assembling a bunch of Scripture verses writings from the ECF's that remind us that PEOPLE WROTE STUFF?

That sword cuts both ways.

So quoting Scripture is just reminding people that people wrote stuff?

Clearly Jesus thought more of it than that when He quoted it to counter Satan's attacks, and to validate Himself and His message.

Catholics should have as high an opinion of the word of God as Jesus did.

[metmom]

Waldensians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldensians

And there are others who know more about that past.

Perhaps they can direct you to posts of theirs that demonstrate those events.

[HiTech RedNeck]

I suggest the connotation here is not to put any man in God’s shoes with respect to yourself. That was a Jewish practice which still lives on today in rabbinic Judaism.

The bible itself says elsewhere that to the church are given pastors and teachers (or pastor-teachers). This can’t contradict the meaning of this passage. Christ was sometimes a bit cryptic, expecting us to deduce His intentions under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, as well as whatever of the context we can grasp.

[HiTech RedNeck]

The movement originated in the late twelfth century as the Poor Men of Lyons, a band organized by Peter Waldo, a wealthy merchant who gave away his property around 1173, preaching apostolic poverty as the way to perfection.

The original Waldo of where's Waldo?

Anyhow, when they embraced the Protestant Revolution they would have had to give up their idea of salvation by works. Again, I think my point stands: having the church mixed up with Caesar gave the church a sword which it could use wickedly.