Posted on 01/17/2015 9:07:56 AM PST by Salvation
This week we leave the Culture Wars behind and return to some basic apologetics…well, some interesting information about the Scriptures that informs our apologetics.
I once had a discussion with a person who insisted that Our Divine Lord spoke only Hebrew. The conversation had begun centered around the word “rock” in St Matthew’s Gospel (Mt 16:18), but quickly devolved into a debate about ancient languages. My friend held that the word “rock” couldn’t possibly refer to St. Peter because the Gospel was written in Greek, and the Greek words used in that passage are “petros” and “petra,” which mean “rock” and “small rock,” respectively. I pointed out that Jesus didn’t speak Greek, He spoke Aramaic, and the Aramaic word for rock is “kepha,” which means “big rock” or “boulder.”
My friend was thunderstruck, he had never considered that a Jew in that time would speak any other language but Hebrew.
By the time Christ arrived on the scene, the Jewish people had been through a series of calamities that fundamentally altered their society. The Jewish state, Judah, was a rump of Israel’s former glory under King David, having been invaded and imprisoned a number of times by the Persians, the Greeks, the Assyrians, and the Romans. During the Babylonian Exile and the subsequent occupation by the Assyrians (700-330 BC), the Imperial Language of Aramaic became the common language of the Jews. In fact, the books of Ezra and Daniel were written in Aramaic. Similar to the way that the Church’s official language is Latin even today, the Rabbis and Temple officials maintained the Hebrew language of worship and the Scriptures, but the people spoke Aramaic in their daily lives.
The linguistic patchwork of first century Judea was complicated by two more civilizations…Greek and Roman. Greek was the common language used by the Roman elites in the conduct of business in the Empire. Latin, of course, was the official language of the Empire spoken by Roman officials and military forces, as well as the Roman citizens.
History aside, how do we know from the Scriptures that Christ spoke Aramaic? Simple. In several places He is quoted speaking Aramaic. In St. Matthew’s and St. Mark’s Gospels, some of Christ’s words are rendered in the language the people spoke. “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” (Mt 27:46, Mk 15:34), “Talitha cuom” (Mk 8:41), and “Ephphatha” (Mk 7:34) are all Aramaic phrases. Even the word “Abba” which Christ uses often to refer to the Father is the Aramaic word roughly translated as “Daddy.” Incidentally, the Arabic word “Abu” has the same meaning… so “Abu Sulieman” means “Father of Solomon.”
Why is all this language study important to defense of the Faith? Just this: properly translating the Scriptures leads to proper interpretations. For example, when the “brothers of Jesus” are referred to in Scripture, it’s important to know that they are cousins, not children of Mary. We know this because Aramaic has no word for “cousin” and Semitic cultures usually consider all male relatives as “brother” or “uncle.” In fact, not to refer to a male relative as “brother” or “father” or “uncle” is a way of distancing oneself from them. If we try to go with the English word, or even the Greek one, then we run the risk of drawing the wrong conclusion from the word “brother” or “rock,” and that weakens our personal understanding of the faith.
The Church recognizes the need for linguistic variety in her worship. It’s also a reason the Latin Rite uses Aramaic (Amen), Greek (Kyrie), Latin (Sanctus, Gloria, Angus Dei), and the vernacular (mostly English or Spanish in the USA) during Holy Mass. Words have power and real meaning…how else could we believe what someone tells us if words do not mean real ideas?
So the language Jesus Christ spoke on earth is important, both for our heads and our hearts. If words were not important, then the Father wouldn’t have spoken the Eternal Word. We are thankful He did.
Can you tell me the Aramaic word for “cousin” then?
Sorry for the mistake.
Show us any source for Hebrew or Aramaic texts older than the Greek. Show us where scholars prove the original New Testament was anything other than Greek. For that matter, show us where the Catholic Church claims the original New Testament was written in other than Greek and the proofs they use.
You have been shown often and in detail how Kecharitomene can NOT be shown to mean “full of grace”. You claim to be here to learn yet repeat that nonsense after having been conclusively shown it to be error. I’m doubting your sincerity as to your claim to be searching for truth. It appears the propagation of the Catholic Church errors is more in line with your purpose.
That’s a fact. Can there be any doubt that Catholicism is a cult?
Really? Eusebius quotes Papias who says Matthew wrote his book in Hebrew.
Yet allowing that the normative language was Aramaic, as many evangelicals as Michael Brown does, does not settle the issue (and in any case it also does not translate in the RC perpetuated Petrine papacy, with the church looking to Peter reigning supreme in Rome as its the first of a line of assuredly infallible exalted heads, which is one of the many RC inventions not seen in the NT church)
And adding to the linguistical debate, another researcher finds,
...an Aramaic word-play -- I should say, a possible Aramaic word-play, that nobody really understands -- is foundational to Roman and papal authority.
Both David Garland (Reading Matthew: A Literary and Theological Commentary on the First Gospel, New York: Crossroad Publishing, 1995) and Everett Ferguson (The Church of Christ: A Biblical Ecclesiology for Today, Grand Rapids/Cambridge: Eerdmans Publishing Co, 1996) point to the 1990 study by C.C. Caragounis, Peter and the Rock (Berlin: Walter de Gruyter)
Heres Garlands account:
C.C. Caragouniss study of this passage carefully argues, however, that the rock refers to something other than Peter. The demonstrative pronoun this [in the phrase on this rock] logically should refer to something other than the speaker or the one spoken to and would be appropriate only if Jesus were speaking about Peter in the third person and not speaking to him. If Jesus were referring to Peter, it would have been clearer to have, You are Rock, and upon you I will build my church (Caragounis 89). Petros usually meant a free-standing stone that could be picked up; and petrausually was used to mean rock, cliff, or bedrock. But the two terms could reverse their meaning and no clear-cut distinction can be made between the two (Caragounis, 12, 15). If the two words were intended to refer to the same thing, petros could have been used in both places since it could be used to mean both stone and rock. The use of two different terms in the saying, petros and petra, implies that the two were to be distinguished from each other. MoreIn any case, the linguistical debate is endless and on going, and the answer is to examine what was said in context and how this is understood in the rest of Scripture.
The R.C. exaltation of Peter is foundationally based upon Mt. 16:13-19, wherein there is a play on the word "rock" by the Lord, in which the immovable "Rock" upon which Christ would build His church is the confession that Christ was the Son of God, and thus by implication it is Christ himself. The verse at issue, v.18, cannot be divorced from that which preceded it, in which the identity of Jesus Christ is the main subject. In the next verse (17) that is what Jesus refers to in telling blessed Peter that flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, and in v. 18 that truth is what the this rock refers to, with a distinction being made between the person of Peter and this rock. This is the only interpretation that is confirmed, as it must be, in the rest of the New Testament. For in contrast to Peter, that the LORD Jesus is the Rock (petra) or "stone" (lithos, and which denotes a large rock in Mk. 16:4) upon which the church is built is one of the most abundantly confirmed doctrines in the Bible (petra: Rm. 9:33; 1Cor. 10:4; 1Pet. 2:8; cf. Lk. 6:48; 1Cor. 3:11; lithos: Mat. 21:42; Mk.12:10-11; Lk. 20:17-18; Act. 4:11; Rm. 9:33; Eph. 2:20; cf. Dt. 32:4, Is. 28:16) including by Peter himself. (1Pt. 2:4-8) Rome's current catechism attempts to have Peter himself as the rock as well, but also affirms: On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church, (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424) which understanding some of the ancients concur with.
The R.C. exaltation of Peter is foundationally based upon Mt. 16:13-19, wherein there is a play on the word "rock" by the Lord, in which the immovable "Rock" upon which Christ would build His church is the confession that Christ was the Son of God, and thus by implication it is Christ himself. The verse at issue, v.18, cannot be divorced from that which preceded it, in which the identity of Jesus Christ is the main subject. In the next verse (17) that is what Jesus refers to in telling blessed Peter that flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, and in v. 18 that truth is what the this rock refers to, with a distinction being made between the person of Peter and this rock. This is the only interpretation that is confirmed, as it must be, in the rest of the New Testament. For in contrast to Peter, that the LORD Jesus is the Rock (petra) or "stone" (lithos, and which denotes a large rock in Mk. 16:4) upon which the church is built is one of the most abundantly confirmed doctrines in the Bible (petra: Rm. 9:33; 1Cor. 10:4; 1Pet. 2:8; cf. Lk. 6:48; 1Cor. 3:11; lithos: Mat. 21:42; Mk.12:10-11; Lk. 20:17-18; Act. 4:11; Rm. 9:33; Eph. 2:20; cf. Dt. 32:4, Is. 28:16) including by Peter himself. (1Pt. 2:4-8) Rome's current catechism attempts to have Peter himself as the rock as well, but also affirms: On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church, (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424) which understanding some of the ancients concur with. While men can argue about the significance of the difference between the Greek (the language the Holy Spirit chose to express the New Testament revelation in) words Petros (Peter, or stone in Jn. 1:42) and petra (rock) in Mt. 16:18, and what the LORD might have said in Aramaic, the phrase this stone (touton lithosis), used to identify the cornerstone which is the foundation of the church, (Mt. 21:42) is only used of Christ as regarding a person. (Mt. 21:44)
It is by the rock of this faith that the church not only exists but it gains its members. (1Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:13) And it is by the essential faith which Peter expressed that church overcomes: "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1Jn, 5:5; cf (1Jn. 2:13,14,25) And which Peter himself confirms: "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world." (1 Pet 5:8-9)
What part of “written in Greek” is giving you problems?
Christ was also referred to having sisters as well as brothers. Tell me theres no aramaic words for sister.
Supposing that Mary was a perpetual virgin is an assumption.
And supposing she had other children is also an assumption.
I assume that the assumption that Mary only had one child is probably true because Jesus gave John the care of his mother.
Also if Mary had other children he no doubt would have been a hero to at least one of them.
In the one conversation I am familiar with that was recorded between them they do not appear to talk to Jesus as an older brother but as one would talk to a younger brother, John 7:3-5
Mathew 13
Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Why is it that the brothers are known so well? could it be because they were older? and even the sisters were known.
I think it would not be likely that the younger would be better known than the older.
We all have our assumptions but assumptions is all they are.
Then produce the Hebrew documents. Surely God would be able to preserve what He wanted preserved. After all, God said He would preserve His word for all generations. Or do you not think God was able to fully live up to that promise?
So much evidence yet denial on the part of Catholics. It’s stunning really.
Black Jesus spoke Cursive
Dont need to,the Bible clearly states the differance between both words.Otherwise Mary’s cousin would have been sister and John the Baptist would have been brother.Explain that if you can.
Not if you read scripture which says He has brothers and sisters. The "assumption" is on the part of Catholics who try to somehow discount what the Holy Spirit had written.
John ch19 line 20
Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross. It was written, "JESUS THE NAZARENE, THE KING OF THE JEWS." Therefore many of the Jews read this inscription, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Latin and in Greek.
Yes Aramaic but also Hebrew and likely Greek as Greek was the language of trade in that day.
Spoken language you can only guess at. In order to be understood he would have to speak the dialect of whomever he was speaking to at the time. Which doesn’t preclude him from being fluent in several languages current in that region at that time.
For written language we could use the Dead Sea Scrolls as evidence of the languages that were current at the time- we see Hebrew, four varieties of Aramaic, Greek and some Latin.
http://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/learn-about-the-scrolls/languages-and-scripts?locale=en_US
Craftmore, I cannot figure out why it is necessary to so vehemently accuse someone of lying simply because they disagree with you. A little respect and civility might further everyone’s understanding.
That said, Salvation, I am not sure that the absence of a word for cousin in Aramaic would necessarily lead to the conclusion that Jesus had no brothers or sisters. It opens the door for that possibility, but it is not a logical necessity as far as I can tell.
Not if you read scripture which says He has brothers and sisters. The “assumption” is on the part of Catholics who try to somehow discount what the Holy Spirit had written.
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