Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
Dude, quit while you’re behind. It’s embarrassing.
annalex: It is not a result of works alone.
Salvation is not the result of any works of any human except those of the sinless God-man Jesus, suffering The Gods fiery wrath upon the Cross of Calvary, for bearing there in His Body all our sins, dying, resurrecting to life, and placing His Incorruptible Life-bearing Blood. once for all time, as our Eternal High Priest, on the Heavenly Mercy Seat, thus completely satisfying all of The Father's righteous demands for the damage to His Creation that human sin has made.
Apparently you do not understand, or at least won't admit that works of any kind by you or by any other human do not enter into the salvation formula.
You want us to believe that:
(dead) Faith + (dead) Works = Rebirth
Whereas contrary to that, the true salvation equation is:
(Living) Faith + (God-given) Rebirth = (Living) Works for Christ
It is not until the new birth has been effected through God instantaneously conferring the irreversible gift of salvation, based on one's permanent change-of-mind (which comprises both simultaneous repentance and total committed trust, in one fell swoop) that a life of creditable works can be initiated, as prompted by the Holy Spirit. (Ephesians 2:8-10, Heb 9:14)
A dead faith produces dead works, which mixed together can never produce a living child of God. To overcome this condition, the blood of Christ cleanses ones conscience, one's mind, from dead works. Relinquishing and abandoning them is the sign to God that one's mind has been changed, and that a permanent unbreakable loyalty to The Christ Whose Blood accomplished the cleansing is cemented. Christ Jesus is become the Source of Life and Truth, and is the single focus of ones affection above self and others, forever.
Sadly, but truthfully, there is no salvation that allows for "falling away," for "backsliding." Such behavior only means the person never really had that "change of mind," that μετάνοια (metanoeeah), that saving once-and-for-all repentance--and was never saved. (Moreover, neither water baptism nor paedobaptism can ever generate a new spiritual creature or remove sin.)
He/she not following through only experienced metamellomai--a regret, though yet a guilty, deep, sorrowful remorse--but remorse alone is not the basis for The God to confer salvation and new birth.
Paul described this condition to the Corinthian church, some of whose members clearly were not truly saved--they were just carnal, unregenerated "believer" converts:
"For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent (μεταμελομαι = regret),
though I did repent (μετεμελομην = regret): for I perceive that the same epistle
hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance
(μετανοιαν = change of mind): for ye were made sorry after a godly
manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
For godly sorrow worketh repentance (μετανοιαν) to salvation not-to-be-
repented-of (αμεταμελητον = unregrettable): but the sorrow of the world
worketh death" (2 Cor. 7:8-10 AV).
Now, for those carnal Corinthians who evidently were regenerated as a consequence of hearing (faith cometh by hearing) and responding humbly to Paul's Gospel with a saving mind and heart (from which come the good works once saved), here is a summary of the works of their new and permanent relationship with God that ensued:
"For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a
godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what
clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what
fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what
revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be
clear in this matter" (2 Cor. 7:8-11 AV).
(In the above, I have inserted some parenthetical explanatory words, bolded a phrase for emphasis, hyphenated a phrase translated from one Greek word, and struck through the words as supplied by the translators only for clarifying.)
Unfortunately, in the Latin Vulgate and English Douay-Rheims translations the word "repentance" involving a total, 180 degree turnabout, has been replaced by the totally inadequate and misleading tern "penance," which only means that separation from God by Sin as a master can somehow be repaired by doing some kind of pay-back to God, of saying a few cycles of the Rosary, or spending a few days or months or a life in seclusion of a monk, etc. All these are dead works arising out of a dead faith, which is found in that mortally reprobate translation as follows:
"Now I am glad: not because you were made sorrowful, but because you were
made sorrowful unto penance. For you were made sorrowful according to God,
that you might suffer damage by us in nothing.
For the sorrow that is according to God worketh penance, steadfast unto
salvation: but the sorrow of the world worketh death" (2Co 7:9-10 DRB).
That simple substitution wreaks such havoc to Paul's words as to completely destroy his Gospel of salvation by faith/repentance alone, and rob one of the only path to salvation through the work of Jesus on The Cross.
For the true meaning of the Greek words for repent or repentance, we look to the reliable lexicons:
From Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon:
Strong's Number: G3341 μετάνοια
metanoia
Thayer Definition:
1) a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents,
of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done
Part of Speech: noun feminine
-------
G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with
abhorrence of one’s past sins
Part of Speech: verb
-----------
From Strong's Concordance:
G3341
μετάνοια
metanoia
met-an'-oy-ah
From G3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication reversal (of [another’s] decision): - repentance.
-------
G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō
met-an-o-eh'-o
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.
========
I would be concerned for the eternal disposition of anyone who does not take the above explanation very seriously, and repair their relationship to The Lord Jesus Messiah accordingly.
Don't you think it's about time to give up on your fruitless approach? Your strategy is really logically, spiritually, and Scripturally untenable, and it cannot give you any security or heart-rest.
LOLOL....
I think you mean that you will, after adding or removing a few words from the verse, give us something that has no relation to the verse at all...
And yet you (guys) don't seem to have the ability to to explain any of the hundreds of verses we post to you from the scriptures...
;)
This thread still going on? Wow.
Of the ten passages I cited, only four even mentioned the "law". I can certainly quote dozens more that clearly teach we are saved by faith apart from the works we do - whether the works of the Law of Moses (which was called the highest law) or good deeds, "corporal works of mercy" (fancy way to say good deeds we do with our flesh out of love for others) or anything we do with the intent to have those things make us righteous before God. Do you not know that all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags in God's sight? Paul said, "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing" (Rom. 7:18a).
For some reason your responses continue to assert something NO ONE is arguing against - that of exhortations to good works. We ALL believe that we were created UNTO good works, which God has prepared for us to do. Where you seem to be confused is when you claim God says we must DO good works in order to be saved. NOWHERE in Scripture will you find anything that clearly says our works contribute to our salvation. Of course, there are some who incorrectly interpret a few places that sounds like God is saying that, but they are wrong because God will not contradict Himself. He won't say in one place "for it is by grace are you saved through faith and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast" but then turn around somewhere else and say you HAVE TO do good works in order to be saved. It's kind of sneaky, actually, to profess one believes we are saved by the grace of God and not of our works, but then to say we are saved by faith AND works. You contradict yourself and, according to God, you are fallen from grace.
Why pervert the Gospel that way? It is ONLY because of what Jesus did for us that we can be saved. A gift is not something you earn or work for. It's not a gift if you have to do something to keep it. God's gifts and promises are immutable - He doesn't change His mind. He doesn't play "bait&switch". He doesn't lure souls into Christ by offering a gift that He says we receive through faith to then demand that unless we ALSO do good works we don't get to keep the gift. God isn't a shyster. Stop insinuating He is. That is corrupting the Gospel and it is accursed.
I wonder what some people are afraid of if they tell it to others straight? Do they imagine a person will just take the gift, yell, "Thanks God!", and then run off to a life of debauchery, sin and concupiscence, assured he is going to heaven anyway, might as well live it up??? Just what kind of job do you think the Holy Spirit is doing, anyway? Don't you know that a genuine faith is one that surrenders to Christ, falls upon the mercy seat of grace, rises up in newness of life eager to live glorifying the one who so mercifully saved him from eternal hellfire? Has it occurred to you that James was talking about two kinds of people - the one who says he has faith and the one who demonstrates he has real faith by how he acts? Why is it you only have one misinterpreted passage to fall back on and ignore the countless others that demolish your feeble interpretation?
We are justified by faith and NOT by our deeds. The very righteousness of Christ is imputed to us who flee to Him in faith and our sins and iniquities He remembers no more. Just try to glory and boast of your own righteousness - good luck with that. The glory is going ALL to God!
You only think you know that is what James is saying because your "church" has decided it is a proof text for the accursed gospel they preach. Your religion is filled to the brim with wonder, fantasies, legends, myths and obfuscations in order to keep gullible people from discovering the truth of the TRUE gospel. It's no wonder when the Holy Spirit breaks through to the heart of a cradle Roman Catholic and he/she finally comprehends what genuine grace and faith really is, sooner or later he/she MUST flee the clutches of a false religion and seek out the assembly of genuine, born again believer brothers and sisters in Christ. It's a beautiful thing!
The "church" doesn't have ANY authority to dictate to Almighty God what Divinely-inspired Scripture they will or will not accept. They can only choose to obey or disobey and face the consequences. Did He let the Jews off the hook for their ignorance and/or disobedience of His word? No, He did not. Heaven and earth will pass away, but the word of our God will NEVER pass away. I don't think God was sitting around hoping His word was received and believed. Those who refused faced His judgment. They had NO excuse - ESPECIALLY not, "Well, we were waiting for our church to give the go-ahead.".
He's no Teyve!!
As the Good Book says...(laughs) Why should I be telling you ...
It's muddy and cold outside.
Here in our virtual little world; one in many ways similar to MineCraft; we can energetically interact with fellow soldiers: the ones on OUR side, as well as folks from the OTHER.
It keeps us warm and fulfilled until Spring.
Luke 7:50
"Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."
By now; SURELY you PROTS know that not EVERYTHING is written in the Bible.
Could GOD not ALSO have said...
"Your baptism has saved you.
"Your confirmation has saved you.
"Your obedience to Rome has saved you.
"Your Adoration to Mary has saved you.
"Your Veneration of Mary has saved you.
"Your Love of Mary has saved you.
"Your faithful praying of the Rosary has saved you.
"Your taking of multitudes of Eucharist wafers has saved you.
"Your adherence of ALL church teaching has saved you.
Hater!
Thanks for this week’s tagline.
Indeed, it is a beautiful thing. You just described my life perfectly. Thank you kindly. 😄😃😀
Soring, as in a spring in your step? Or, the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto eternal life? Or, the springtime of your life? Or simply, what is the weather like? Well, since you asked, I will tell you. It was 84 degrees today. 😄😃😀😊 I really suffered for Jesus, because of the weather today. 😄😃😀😀
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