Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
That doesn't make any sense to me. Either we are saved by grace, or by works. I don't buy the idea that it is by both. Isaiah 64;6, all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. Somehow, I just can't see God allowing filthy rags into Heaven. I keep saying, your definition of grace and my definition of grace, are radically different. I wonder what other things do we define differently? I have a feeling, it may be more than just one thing.
LOL, not by true Christians he won't. Others maybe, but not by Christians.
Affirmative sir. I went through the deprogramming process too. No one really told me what to believe. I came across it in the Bible, all by myself. It was not really a painful process, just more like an eye opening experience.
BTW, pray for us. Tomorrow we go to Doctor's Hospital and then to Tim Tebow's Cure Hospital (DavaoCity) at a later date, to present the gospel. I think you already know about the majority religious persuasion of many people here :-) We continue the spiritual warfare. Eph 6:12
We are saved by grace alone but not by faith alone. Grace gives us both faith and ability to persevere in good works.
Interesting how often people spend such energy arguing against Catholicism yet would not take time to learn a little bit about it.
It's about 11 AM there at this time ... praying for you
Suggest you reread Ephesians 2 in its’ entirety.
Lively too.
No, it doesn’t follow. The passage speaks of oral and personal teaching and of the scripture and explains that with those things together, the cleric is perfect and fully equipped. That the knowledge of scripture is necessary for a priest (man of God) no one denies. That scripture alone makes him so is not in the text and is an absurd proposition, because, for example, it is also required from the priest to be of certain behavior, not just filled with book knowledge.
I remember those days :-(
Why, right here: MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS.
The Bible does teach that faith is necessary for salvation. It negates, however, the doctrine that faith alone is sufficient for salvation (James 2:17-26).
Correct. We are saved by grace alone. From grace both good works and faith result (Eph. 2:4-10). If you have faith but no good works, your faith is dead (James 2:17-26).
Which part do you think teaches something other than Catholic doctrine?
As with Mormons, you have understand how terms are used. For a RC, saved by grace means salvation by grace thru works of merit.
That by God's grace the salvation process begins by formally being justified by your own (infused) holiness, then you end up working yourself into a condition whereby your are good enough to enter Heaven.
This is under the rubric of the cross, but rather than God justifying the unGodly by counting his faith for righteousness, as Rm. 4 teaches, instead God justifies the Godly thru regeneration, so that Abraham must have becoming born again in Gn. 15:6, or was already justified, neither was which is what the text says.
And RC relegate "not by works" to only mean the Law, though Titus 3:5 i written to a Greek and makes no distinction, and"if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." (Galatians 3:21)
It is true that in a sense a believer is justified by works, insofar as this testifies to him truly being a believer, thus whosoever shall call (a response=work) upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, or he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, for if they do such things then it shows that are believers.
And in grace, God also rewards faith (Heb. 10:35) in recognition of works, though in justice they deserved Hell, as that the their real wage for sins.
Too tired to write more now
Salamat po. You are welcome anytime bro. Tim Tebow's Cure Hospital is on JP Laurel Street, just down the street from Shu Mart Lanang, in the Agdao area of Davao City. It is a nice facility.
See what I mean? There is just enough of a subtle difference in what you say, to what I say. I disagree with your first statement. Good works come out of faith, not the other way around. Don't get the cart before the horse. Faith first, works second, as a result of faith, not the other way around. About James (the half brother of Jesus, the natural son of Mary and Joseph) he was writing to people who already had "faith" and were already saved. He merely says if someone claims to have saving faith, but there is never a change in their life, if their works do not show where their heart is, they are not telling the truth. If their faith does down not result in a lifetime of good works, they need to question whether or not they have true faith. I think you define faith and grace differently than I do.
Later bro.
... and told them that it may very well be that their faith was dead.
Affirmative sir. I have dealt with enough Mormons, JWs, INC, RCs and Quiboloy's people. I would say the INC and Quiboloy's people are some of the hardest to deal with. Extremely indoctrinated and extremely blind, with a capital B. You must define your terms. For instance, you know exactly what faith and grace mean. Those words conjure up a whole different concept in their minds, so it is not easy. Take care.
LOL, sorry, I do not agree. I see a very subtle difference again. I don't believe for a second he was telling THEM their faith was dead. Only that if someone claimed to have faith, but their faith did not result in good works, they were not telling the truth. Notice again, I said that good works follows their faith, it does not precede it. Very subtle, very subtle, but definitely a slight difference between what you think and what I think. Very subtle. Isn't it kind of late there now? It is 1 PM, Friday here.
I feel sorry for those who have believed the lies that have been told, by the church, about poor Mary; a simple Jewish girl; that never turned her affection towards her frustrated husband.
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