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To: annalex; CynicalBear; MamaB; Elsie; daniel1212
You are saved by grace alone, but not by faith alone

That doesn't make any sense to me. Either we are saved by grace, or by works. I don't buy the idea that it is by both. Isaiah 64;6, all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. Somehow, I just can't see God allowing filthy rags into Heaven. I keep saying, your definition of grace and my definition of grace, are radically different. I wonder what other things do we define differently? I have a feeling, it may be more than just one thing.

6,121 posted on 01/15/2015 6:17:43 PM PST by Mark17 (Weary and worn, facing for sinners, death on the cross, that He might save them from endless loss)
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To: Mark17; CynicalBear; MamaB; Elsie; daniel1212
That doesn't make any sense to me. Either we are saved by grace, or by works

Correct. We are saved by grace alone. From grace both good works and faith result (Eph. 2:4-10). If you have faith but no good works, your faith is dead (James 2:17-26).

6,132 posted on 01/15/2015 7:25:34 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Mark17
That doesn't make any sense to me. Either we are saved by grace, or by works. I don't buy the idea that it is by both

As with Mormons, you have understand how terms are used. For a RC, saved by grace means salvation by grace thru works of merit.

That by God's grace the salvation process begins by formally being justified by your own (infused) holiness, then you end up working yourself into a condition whereby your are good enough to enter Heaven.

This is under the rubric of the cross, but rather than God justifying the unGodly by counting his faith for righteousness, as Rm. 4 teaches, instead God justifies the Godly thru regeneration, so that Abraham must have becoming born again in Gn. 15:6, or was already justified, neither was which is what the text says.

And RC relegate "not by works" to only mean the Law, though Titus 3:5 i written to a Greek and makes no distinction, and"if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." (Galatians 3:21)

It is true that in a sense a believer is justified by works, insofar as this testifies to him truly being a believer, thus whosoever shall call (a response=work) upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, or he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, for if they do such things then it shows that are believers.

And in grace, God also rewards faith (Heb. 10:35) in recognition of works, though in justice they deserved Hell, as that the their real wage for sins.

Too tired to write more now

6,134 posted on 01/15/2015 8:02:36 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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