Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[WVKayaker]

5000

[metmom]

Now

[WVKayaker]

missed it!

[metmom]

Dang!!!!

You beat me to it....

[WVKayaker]

What amazes me is that the roman Catholic continent has reverted and recycled and repeated their circular reasoning so much, and have ignored clear Scripture responding to them.

John 4: 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

[WVKayaker]

contingent

[daniel1212]

The common complaint RCs make against those they call "Protestants" - which, according to a few here is ANYONE who isn't a Roman Catholic but who is a Christian

If not really defined as such it is often used that way. While i have had an RC tell me Eastern Orthodox as not Catholics. Can't find where though.

[Springfield Reformer]

But all Caths typical evidence they see is "this is My body" as teaching a basically literal (fully would mean actual vs. trans...) nature of the body and blood, and thus so focus on the wafer that they could just as well "take communion" (not take part in it) independently of others. And being thus conditioned some even rush out after they have done so. Yet many Prot. churches are not much better, missing the communal union with Christ and each other.

Indeed, this is one of the great takeaways I'm getting out of this whole analysis.  It has altered my expectations for what the memorial meal should be like. Evangelicals have not generally become entangled in the idolatry of the ritual, but the sense of connection within the body of Christ this is designed to foster is still not what it should be.  We have become too entangled with our clocks, and our lives outside the fellowship of faith.  Though not universally.  I have known smaller fellowship for whom this was a very precious time of being together in the Lord.

Peace,

SR

[annalex]

Not "judge or discern the body AND the blood." Just the body. That asymmetry is jarringly out of place if the fault of the Corinthians is their failure to have a mystical experience

Adding for the 7th time a reference to the wine/blood/drinking would simply be unnecessary. Six Eucharistic references before it come in bread-wine pairs.

The condemnation is not expressed in verse 29 alone, it starts in verse 27 and continues to 28 and 29, and 30.

The discernment is likewise not only mentioned in verse 29. Verse 26 "For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come" refers to the same thing: what you are eating is an exposition of the sacrifice of Christ. Verse 26 has eat/drink pair and states the same fact as verse 29: the Eucharist is the sacrifice of Christ.

However, I would agree that the passage about the Eucharist ends on a communitarian note: "wait for one another". The difficulty for the Protestant to understand this passage is that a Protestant not only misunderstands the Eucharist, thinking of it in purely symbolic terms. The Protestant does not understand the Body of Christ as ecclesiology either. That is because for a Protestant the community of believers is an aggregation of those who on some level or another profess a degree of faith in Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. But that is not the point St. Paul is making: to him, the Mystical body of Christ is at the same time the Eucharist and the Church. This allows him so easily slide in and out of the Eucharistic themes of verses 23-29 to the ecclesiological themes of verses 18-22 and 33-34. The Protestants see two themes and feel compelled to pick one and discard the other. But the proper Catholic reading is to hear it polyphonically, as written.

[redleghunter]

What I posted was Holy Inspired Scriptures.

[annalex]

Now you succeeded to devoid your understanding of 1 Cor. 11 from any meaning whatsoever. It is not the Eucharist, but neither, we learn from you, is it a charity event. It is just people having a little snack together.

The first letter of Miss Manners to the Corinthians.

[ealgeone]

Yes, that is a good example that helps us understand the teaching of the Church better. It is true that the bind-and-loose passages formally allow for that possibility: that the Church makes up an erroneous doctrine and the Heaven will be in a quandary: either violate this promise about binding and loosing the error in heaven, or overlook the error and bless it as truth.

The answer is that the Church simply is not going to make such decision, because the Holy Spirit leads her. Modern popes, especially, like to make this point (I paraphrase): "you want me to allow contraception? -- I cannot do that... You want me to allow women priests? -- I cannot do that".

The fact that the Catholic Church is inerrant is one corollary of these passages.

And yet, the rcc proclaims that Mary, in spite of clear teaching in the Bible to the contrary, says she was sinless and remained a virgin. And further....catholic apologists admit this false belief cannot be substantiated in Scripture nor can they appeal to the ECFs.(catholic encyclopediaonline)

Further, Jesus says of John the Baptist, "I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.” Luke 7:28

Here was an opportunity for Jesus to elevate Mary, yet He didn't.

And catholics claim they are without error. Indeed.

[Elsie]

I thank God that they are more accepting of my beliefs than some FReepers on this thread.

Of course you are!

Tranksgiving dinner would be TERRIBLE got into religious 'discussions'!

[Elsie]

Christ who said “I will build my Church.”

And us PROTs are part of it.

[metmom]

If not really defined as such it is often used that way. While i have had an RC tell me Eastern Orthodox as not Catholics. Can't find where though.

Some of the older popes have said the same thing.

[Elsie]

That opinion would explain someone who neither loves her nor considers her a virgin.

[Elsie]

I am 76 years old today!, my only overseer is the Holy Spirit and He agrees with me 100%

O...
K...

[Elsie]

...agreed to by EVERY CHRISTIAN in the world for 16 centuries....

Or ELSE!

[Elsie]

Catholics are just fine with the leader that we have....

This is UNTRUE and I suspect you know it.

[Elsie]

you vipers!