Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not mans standard.
Why would someone need to put in a *good word* for us with the Savior who came to seek and save the lost, the One who went to the cross to die for us HIMSELF?
What kind of image of Jesus do Catholics have that they think that someone needs to put in a good word to Jesus on their behalf?
And still, why involve Mary at all in redemption? She didn't die for us. She cannot save us. It's not her job to point us to Jesus. That's the job of the Holy Spirit.
So what's the point of all the Mary stuff anyway? Why the claims that she's sinless, perpetually virgin, mother of us all, etc?
None of that is found in Scripture. Is Jesus and His promises not adequate for Catholics?
I simply do not understand why Catholics believe that Jesus needs help when we pray. Why involve Mary at all? She is dead. Another thing. Why don’t they read the Bible as much as we do so they can back up their statements?
To me, it reveals a real lack of understanding of the Father's heart towards His children.
Matthew 6:7-15 And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. Pray then like this:
Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Luke 11:1-13 Now Jesus was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples. And he said to them, When you pray, say:
Father, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread, and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.
And he said to them, Which of you who has a friend will go to him at midnight and say to him, Friend, lend me three loaves, for a friend of mine has arrived on a journey, and I have nothing to set before him; and he will answer from within, Do not bother me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I cannot get up and give you anything? I tell you, though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his impudence he will rise and give him whatever he needs.
And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!
Luke 18:1-8 And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man. And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, Give me justice against my adversary. For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, Though I neither fear God nor respect man, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice, so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.
And the Lord said, Hear what the unrighteous judge says. And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?
John 14:12-14 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
James 5:13-18 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the earth bore its fruit.
1 John 5:14-15 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
Hebrews 4:14-16 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Romans 8:26-27 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8:33-34 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who diedmore than that, who was raisedwho is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Hebrews 7:25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
It’s staggering to think that Jesus Himself and the Holy Spirit Himself, are both interceding for us according to the will of God.
What more could a person want?
Or need?
Akin claims he isn't using circular logic but he certainly is. He is also using an argument by assertion tactic by claiming things not in evidence. There are also a number of leaps in logic such as his claim that the Roman Catholic church was the church Jesus founded, that this church was "infallible", that this "infallible" church determined God's word was infallible and that without this "infallible" church we wouldn't have God's word or believe in its infallibility. Each one of these can be disproved, and HAVE been often right here.
Thank you. God bless.
Sorry Mrs.Don-o but I disagree with that statement...Their Messiah should not be expected to fight their Earthly battles against enemies that would totally destroy them if they ever thought they could do so. I think that their Messiah gave them the scientific know-how to win many Nobel Prizes and also develop a world respected nuclear deterance.
To blindly neglect their own well being and expect an army of Angels to descend to defend them would be a little over the top.
I'm glad you know what's on Jesus' mind.
STA...in your repeat of this in your post #4496, I noticed that you said it was, “Jimmy Akin masterfully, and concisely, presents the “spiral” argument for the inspiration of Scripture”, that Mr. Akin failed to credit Karl Keating for that concluding paragraph that SR’s link demolished. Was this an oversight of Akin or do Catholic apologists have blanket approval for plagiarizing each other?
Jesus was walking along one day, when He came upon a group of people surrounding a lady of ill repute. It was obvious that the crowd was preparing to stone her, so Jesus made His now-famous statement, "Let the person who has no sin cast the first stone."
The crowd was shamed and one by one began to turn away. All of a sudden, a lovely little woman made her way through the crowd. Finally getting to the front, she tossed a pebble towards the woman.
Jesus looks over and says, "I really hate it when you do that, Mom."
So far; so good!
I like the lines in the movie...
"Can we pet him?"
"Sure; he's a vegetarian."
Does Baghdad Bob run a training school for pronouncements like this?
And a hush falls over the crowd...
Says one of the guys who trust wholeheartedly in RELICS.
Moses, who WAS speaking from God warns:
I did not say that was precisely my view. (If I gave that impression, it was poor communication on my part.) It is the POV of the Haredim. I am not well equipped to defend or refute them on the matter, because of my overall ignorance on the history of religious and secular Zionism.
when a person realizes, in their heart, and is shown over and over, that a decision that they made was probably not a good one, they will go to great extremes to justify that decision
Duh....non-Catholics are those who haven't been validly Baptized.
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