Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
Either you have a contradiction in scripture or the word usage is being misunderstood. With all of your advanced degrees as you have given us would you be so kind as to clarify?
So it is your belief that the apostles were literally eating the flesh of Jesus and drinking His blood at the last supper? Of course you still have the problem with your Jewish example because it was strictly forbidden them to consume the blood. Why do you not use the Jewish example with regard to the command of God not to consume the blood? Once again Catholic double speak seems to have raised it's head.
Wait,,,,,all those degrees and you can't follow but I can? Hmmm!
That's why we go to the Holy Spirit who is the ultimate in knowledge of spiritual matters rather then some fallible guy in a fancy bath robe. Surely by your own criteria you would agree we should go to the expert right?
I'm reminded of all those with degrees who have been shown cannot read with comprehension or those college students interviewed by Waters on O'Reilly.
Maybe you would care to answer the qe4ustion that your cohorts are seemingly terrified to answer.
Why do you accept the canon of 1st and 2nd Century Jews, when it is that exact same group that rejected both Christ and the canon of the New Testament?
Yet the outward, sacred signs of the Old Covenant--- the sacrifice of the bread offering, the offering of the lamb --- were to be perpetual institutions. As it is written:
2 Chronicles 2:4 2
[And Solomon sent to Huram the king of Tyre, saying...] Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance forever to Israel.
Exodus 12:17
So you will keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread, because on this very day I brought your regiments out from the land of Egypt, and so you must keep this day perpetually as a lasting ordinance.
God told Moses that the Passover Feast should be a perpetual institution. Malachi said the offering of incense and the pure offering would be practiced in the gentile nations "from the rising to the setting of the sun". But where is this perpetual institution still practiced? Among the gentiles? Where?
Surely all the prophecies and types of the Old Covenant must be fulfilled, and fulfilled in a perfect manner, by the Messiah. For only the Messiah could be the perfect High Priest as well as His Body and Blood being the perfect sacrifice.
By giving us his Body and Blood at his celebration of the Passover, Jesus perpetuated the Passover in a manner in which the "perpetual institution" could be celebrated from east to west among the gentile nations, and be fulfilled.
It's good and true and utterly necessary --- but it's not enough --- to say that we offer our thanks and praise, and ourselves, to God, since that was understood even in the OT: for God was always warning against an empty sacrifice which did not involve the inner self, the heart.
What is needed is a perfect Priest offering a perfect Sacrifice in a manner that can be perpetuated among the gentile nations from the rising to the setting of the sun. We offer our thanks and praise,our selves as a fitting sacrifice: but the ONE perfect sacrifice to offered as a perpetual institution among to gentile nations, even to this day, is the ONE Divine Liturgy, the ONE Sacrifice of the Mass, which offers the ONE perfect Sacrifice, once and for all, to God for the sake of our salvation.
"My" offering of "my" self to the Father is good and necessary, but not perfect. Jesus offering Himself to the Father, is perfect.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Proverbs 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
this is hilarious coming from the person that says she doesn't think and then refuse to answer simple direct questions. Let me ask you again: Why do you follow the canon of 1st and 2nd century Jews, when they are the exact same group that reject both Christ and the New testament?
You are correct. Let me fix that.
I think not Scripture would show otherwise. Read Jesus words to the seven churches recorded in Revelation. He didn't focus on the "things they agreed on" but addressed the areas they had strayed. This "things we have in common" appeal is bogus.
It wasn't what "I think" at all. It was what scripture says. Thank you for allowing me to correct that.
8 Therefore I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hands, apart from wrath and debates.
1 Timothy 2:8
. . .Keep on teaching these things and giving these exhortations. 3 If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, 5 violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.
1 Timothy 6:2-5
6 Let no man deceive YOU with empty words, for because of the aforesaid things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not become partakers with them; 8 for YOU were once darkness, but YOU are now light in connection with [the] Lord. Go on walking as children of light, 9 for the fruitage of the light consists of every sort of goodness and righteousness and truth. 10 Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord; 11 and quit sharing with [them] in the unfruitful works that belong to the darkness, but, rather, even be reproving [them], 12 for the things that take place in secret by them it is shameful even to relate. 13 Now all the things that are being reproved are made manifest by the light, for everything that is being made manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he says: “Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and the Christ will shine upon you.”
Ephesians 5:6-14
14 Keep reminding them of these things, charging them before God as witness, not to fight about words, a thing of no usefulness at all because it overturns those listening. 15 Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright. 16 But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, 17 and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy‧me‧nae′us and Phi‧le′tus are of that number. 18 These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some. 19 For all that, the solid foundation of God stays standing, having this seal: “Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and: “Let everyone naming the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.”
2 Timothy 2:14-19
2 However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, with covetousness they will exploit YOU with counterfeit words. But as for them, the judgment from of old is not moving slowly, and the destruction of them is not slumbering.
2 Peter 2:1-3
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
1 Timothy 4:16
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Timothy 4:3
Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.
2 Timothy 2:23
38 John said to him, ‘Teacher, we saw someone* casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.’ 39But Jesus said, ‘Do not stop him; for no one who does a deed of power in my name will be able soon afterwards to speak evil of me. 40Whoever is not against us is for us. 41For truly I tell you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ will by no means lose the reward. 42 ‘If any of you put a stumbling-block before one of these little ones who believe in me,* it would be better for you if a great millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea. 43If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life maimed than to have two hands and to go to hell,* to the unquenchable fire.* 45And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame than to have two feet and to be thrown into hell.*,* 47And if your eye causes you to stumble, tear it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and to be thrown into hell,* 48where their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched. 49 ‘For everyone will be salted with fire.* 50Salt is good; but if salt has lost its saltiness, how can you season it?* Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.’
Mark 9:38-50
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.
Matthew 5:9
You were correct the first time.
Have you ever been interviewed by Jesse Waters? I’ve seen some of those. Not a pretty picture of the “well educated”.
Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
It is you who referred to the Jews eating the sacrifice. Where you aligning yourself to the Jews who rejected Christ and the entire New Testament? But you didn't include the admonition to not eat the blood. Double speak.
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions (battalogēsēte), as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
battalogēsēte - I chatter, am long-winded, utter empty (vain) words, stammer, repeat.
I do believe that even the Catholic Church considers Matthew on of the gospels.
Either you have a contradiction in scripture or the word usage is being misunderstood.
From your post 3974: One only needs to study the Greek words to understand that the translation...
I did study the words in Greek and Hebrew for the OT and in the Greek for the NT. The word is "Diakaios". Word 1342 in both the Lexical aids and the Greek Concordance. In the NT is used top describe Joseph, (foster father of Jesus), Simeon, Elizabeth, her husband Zacharias, as well as John the Baptist.
In the OT LXX It is used 94 times including describing Noah In Gen 6:9
The same is true of the Hebrew Tanach.
So take your own advice and prove me wrong.
BTW my sources are: KJV interlinear Greek NT; Stone Edition Tanach Mesorah Publications limited 3rd impression of the first edition.), Jewish Study Bible (Oxford edition)
P.S. Just a thought here but maybe, just maybe, Paul was engaging in a little thing called "Hyperbole".
Circumcision a perpetual ordinance, Not working on the Sabbath a perpetual ordinance.... etc...
New Covenant new rules.
I actually have a life and choose not to waste it reading meandering replies that can be boiled down to several paragraphs.
Wrong again. It's by God's grace that we have been given faith.
Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
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