Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
.....”posted by a person who denies the Eucharist”....
Be specific...the catholic mass eucharist....which is true I do deny it. Because that is not the Jesus of the Bible represented.
I am well aware that IFBs consider Baptists such as the SBC are liberal yet the fact is they most certainly fall under the category of conservative Baptists, regardless if some parties may seem to exclude IFB as being referred to conservative Baptists. They certainly are not liberal or moderates.
Yet they are so relatively small that excluding them was inconsequential to my statement, and if you think otherwise then go back to that thread.
Maybe you are going into the wrong houses. 3 Catholic Bibles (including the DRB), 1 KJV, 1 NIV, 1 KJV interlinear NT Greek, 1 Greek NT, 1 Interlinear LXX, 1 Jewish study Bible, 1 Tanak/ Tanach.
Those are just the ones Next to the computer desk.
In the Basement are 1 more KJV and NIV, Book of Mormon, Peal of Great price, Doctrines and covenants.
Which one?
By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. (Hebrews 13:15)
Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship. (Romans 12:1)
I believe it is dogma for Orthodox Christians.
oh please, you come up with these inane accusations, based mostly on your own misinterpretation of either Scripture or tradition or both
817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271 818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
Those are some pretty big changes considering the following....
Pope Saint Gregory the Great (A.D. 590 - 604)
"Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved." (Moralia)
Pope Innocent III (A.D. 1198 - 1216)
"Indeed, there is but one universal Church of the faithful outside of which no one at all is saved." (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215; Denz. 151)
"With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved." (Denzinger 423)
Pope Boniface VIII in his Bull Unam Sanctam issued in 1302:
"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
You know af....this doesn't seem fair. It seems like every time a catholic posts something as the "truth" there is a counter "truth" within catholicism itself.
That's a pretty big turnaround for the church that says it's teachings have never ever changed. I call that statement bogus.
The one thing that has not changed though is Christ. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He is ready and willing to forgive all sins by believing in Him.
It is my prayer that catholics come out of the darkness and into the light of salvation offered by Jesus Christ and by Him alone.
He stands knocking at the door as He says in Revelation 3:20.
Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with Me.
>> “Oh we do indeed consume the Body and Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ in the Eucharist.” <<
.
The body and blood of Yeshua no longer exist, he has been ‘changed’ as he explained to Nicodemus in John 3:8.
We cannot consume his soul, nor his divinity, and consuming the Eucharist is paganism, plain and simple.
.
Fixed it for you.
Which one?
List them all....take a moment and brag.
not even a nice try...it was not an alternative spelling, it was the wrong word....probably due to mispronunciation of the word in the first place
no one worships a monstrance either....it is a piece of decorative art, a tool, a pretty decoration...sheesh
Even on this website, there is more discussion by Catholics about Mary than there is about Jesus.The only words from me were the ones showing you that "Even on this website, there is more discussion by Catholics about Mary than there is about Jesus."
quickly go back and read the question that is the basis of this website.....Protestants make baseless and meaningless accusations and Catholics are merely justifying their honoring and not worshiping Mary...
Thank you for not being able to deny it. It is a fact.
Now I'll make an "Assumption"---not of Mary, but rather more likely a True Assumption. That the rest of the text was yours and I will respond accordingly. (if you think those were my words, let me know)
quickly go back and read the question that is the basis of this website.....
The basis of this website is not a question, but rather a mission.
Check out the link embedded in this statement:
Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America. And we always have fun doing it. Hoo-yah!I hope that clears up your confusion that the "basis of this website is a question." You could not be more wrong.
Protestants make...
I will leave the rest of the sentence out, because all it is is baseless and meaningless accusations. And apparently a bit of hate seeping out towards those particular Christians.
And also because I am not a Protestant, but I do like them and applaud them for using scripture and common sense to help you and other Catholics see the error of the belief system you are so fervently proselyting in favor of.
If want to continue to attack Protestants, please tell them not me.
Your last sentence:
Catholics are merely justifying their honoring and not worshiping Mary
I left out the 3 dots because you are not Herb Caen
I have never met a Christian that does not honor Mary.
But I have SEEN thousands of Catholics WORSHIPING her...well the transmuted Catholic version of her.
Not the actual humble handmaid of the Lord that Mary was.
I'm sure after the 2015 years you have been watching Christianity, you must have seen Catholics worship Mary.
Bowing down to her icon.
Laying flat on the ground in front of an icon of her. That's worshiping.
Perhaps if you change your settings so you can see pictures, you will see dozens of pictures just on this thread that show the worship of Mary. And even a pope who looks like he is...pardon the phrase...making out with a Mary doll. Or action figure I guess.
Now that is wack, a grown man all dressed up in beautiful Holy Pharisaical garb doing that!
I love and respect Mary.
Making her into something she is not is the height of disrespect.
We also know that God can sovereignly save anyone and by any means He wishes:
"God's grace has been revealed, and has made salvation possible for the whole human race." (Titus 2:11)
and again,
"God our Savior wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim 2:4).
This is not an avowing of Universalism on my part --- I believe this to be an error --- but it is part of the Catholic belief that, though we are bound by the Sacraments, God is not bound by them
This article has a pretty good explanation of that from a Catholic perspective. This is not new stuff. This is old stuff.
Merry Fifth Day of Christmas...
And a Happy New Year!
no one worships a monstrance either....it is a piece of decorative art, a tool, a pretty decoration...sheesh
I'll tell you....with catholicism it's hard to keep up with what ya'll do or do not worship, believe today but not hundreds of years ago, define a word to mean or not to mean, etc.
One really needs a scorecard.
Stating facts is not bragging. Associates in Industrial Engineering. Dual Bachelors Industrial Engineering/ Vocational Technology education.
1 Masters in Vocational Technology education, 1 in Theology, and 1 in Education Administration.
I also have 30 more graduate Credits in Engineering , specifically CNC, Robotics, and Digital Electronics.
Hardly the "dummy degrees" that someone who has not had the where with all to earn ANY degree whines about.
Your turn.
you may have heard a rosary before or after Mass but NEVER during a Mass. Unless she is mentioned in a reading such as during the season of Christmas, Mary is mentioned only once in a regular Mass and that is during the confetior when we ask her , along with the parishioners, to pray for us.
The Eucharist in the Catholic church is not the same as communion in your church....The Catholic Eucharist is actually the presence of Christ under the appearance of bread and wine whereas your church teaches it as a mere remembrance ceremony.
As Christ said..."do this in remembrance of Me."
My Christian friends of all denominations have their Bibles out in the open so they can read it. I may not have one out now since mine is on my iPad but it is a lot better for my eyes than the one I used before.
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