Posted on 12/12/2014 9:41:27 PM PST by NKP_Vet
A small group of men and women once set its principles of charity and temperance against the prevailing values of the age—and in so doing altered the course of civilization. Because the early Christians’ belief had a specific content of truth and morality based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, they could not simply go with the flow. Jesus was both God and man. They could not worship, or pretend to worship, a mere human being who claimed to be God because he was Caesar. And this seemed to non-Christians to be an unpardonable stubbornness and perversity.
Marriage and Family Matter
This "stubbornness" was not simply confined to matters of worship. The Christians’ family customs were an affront to their pagan neighbors. They would not practice artificial birth control or abortion (the Greeks and Romans had primitive forms of these) since they believed in both the sanctity of life and the life-giving process. Christian couples did not divorce or have sex before marriage because they believed that sexual intercourse was for marriage only, and that the unity of man and woman in marriage was sacred and indissoluble: It was a reflection of Christ’s own unity with his bride the Church (cf. Eph. 5:25). In an age when any father could command the death of his newborn child, Christians accepted all children, including those who were weak or handicapped. In the words of an early Christian testimony, probably written in the second century:
Christians . . . marry like all others, and beget children; but they do not expose their offspring. Their board they spread for all, but not their bed. They find themselves in the flesh, but do not live according to the flesh. They spend their days on earth, but hold citizenship in heaven.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.com ...
Funny stuff and funnier is that you all believe your are correct.
You may not have recognized it but that was scripture.
The first Christians were Jewish.
I’ve been to Peter’s hometown in Gallilee.
The ruins of his church are at least 200 years older than the Catholic Church.
These prayers cannot be based in truth because they seriously contradict God’s Word. Many of the attributes, abilities and actions credited in them to Mary are God’s alone, as His Word reveals, and if they had instead been written by Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses, that fact would then undoubtedly be acknowledged by Roman Catholics.
These prayers are so opposed to God’s Word, though, that how can Christians who go by God’s Word believe they speak the truth and be expected to pray them? Yet when Roman Catholics say all Christians need to be members of the Roman Catholic Church, that is what they are saying and expecting. I could never, though, in good conscience, or with true willingness or joy, pray these prayers, except if the same basic sentiments were addressed instead to the Lord, because He is the only one they could rightfully be addressed to. That is simply the long and short of the matter.
The following, then, are responses from what Scripture has revealed, to the most blatant instances of what, going by what the Lord Himself has revealed in His Word, can only be called blasphemy, in those Roman Catholic prayers. That’s a sad thing to have to say, but it’s what God’s Word shows. Scripture not only plainly teaches that certain things in these prayers are true of God alone, but it constantly reminds us to keep that truth in our minds. We are naturally prone to viewing ourselvefs and just about anything and everything else as a god, except for God Himself, and so we are constantly to be reminding ourselves of the truth of who is actually God. And we are also to remember that because the Lord is God, He says He is available to us, and He is the one we not only can but should always turn to. That is His will for us.
- The Lord is our protector, and so whom we should run to. (and that prayer speaks of Mary offering three different things, protection, help and intercession, not just the last one, as Catholics often claim).
- We stand before the Lord in our sinful state, as Adam and Eve did.
- Jesus spoke again and again of the Father, not the Mother.
- Only sinless God is in the position to possibly despise the petitions of His creatures.
- Only the Lord is “our life, our sweetness, and our hope.”
- We send up our cries and our sighs to the Lord, not Mary.
- The Father shows and has shown Jesus to us.
- Only the Lord can change our hearts to put real love, His love, in them.
- We are to have a continuous desire for the Lord.
- Only the Lord can give us spiritual health.
- Conversion is a work of the Lord.
- Compassion for sinners can only come from the Lord, the only Person who can truly be sinned against, and who, out of His compassion for sinners, gave His Son to die for us.
- We’re to consecrate ourselves to the Lord.
- We’re to entrust our souls to the Lord for salvation.
- We’re to unite our hearts to the Lord’s.
- We’re to offer ourselves entirely to the Lord.
- We’re to offer our whole being without reserve to the Lord.
- We’re to recognize that we’re the property and possession of the Lord.
- The Lord gives strength to the weak.
- The Lord comforts the sorrowful.
- The Lord alone is the Name. Every one else has a name.
- We’re to dedicate our bodies and our souls to the Lord.
- We’re to dedicate our prayers and deeds, and our joys and sufferings, to the Lord.
- We’re to dedicate all that we are and all that we have to the Lord.
- We’re to joyfully surrender to the Lord’s love.
- We’re to dedicate our services to the Lord.
- We can’t accomplish anything on our own, but we can do all things through Christ.
- It is the Lord who can grant that any person, church, family and country will become the Kingdom where the Lord, not Mary, reigns, in His own glory.
- The Lord is the Healer of the Sick.
- The Lord is the Comforter of the Afflicted.
- The Lord is the one who knows our wants, our troubles, and our sufferings, and can look on us then in His mercy.
All of what’s written here are truths from God’s Word itself, as you might well know. I am certainly willing to discuss any of them, including how they’re shown in Scripture, with you, but for the moment, here is God’s Word telling us that He is the one who gives strength:
27 Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the Lord, and my judgment is passed over from my God?
28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.
29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
31 But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
This is just one place in God’s Word where we’re told the Lord gives strength, and it happens to come from Isaiah 40, a chapter in which God is repeatedly called comparable to no one. So God’s Word says He gives strength, and a Roman Catholic prayer says Mary gives strength, and I have and will continue to go with God’s Word, and say in each and every instance that it is He that gives strength. It is my one and only answer on that question. With the knowledge always in my mind that God says He is the one that gives strength, and with feeling the greatest love for that truth about God, I simply cannot ever address Mary and say that she gives strength. So since the Roman Catholic Church teaches Christians should do so, against what God’s Word says, how can Christians be expected to accept it?
And I recognized that you failed to take into account the context and the lack of punctuation.
Catholic Bibles translate the passage the same way. From Catholic.org:
19 ‘My verdict is, then, that instead of making things more difficult for gentiles who turn to God,
20 we should send them a letter telling them merely to abstain from anything polluted by idols, from illicit marriages, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.
The context was very clear and there was no punctuation but it was posted word for word from the Greek in the same word order as in the Greek.
Try approaching God through the Son and the Son through the Mother. You’ll be surprised at the number of your prayers that will be answered.
No, I won’t do that. As I explained, and pointed out to you, these Mary prayers call her “our life, our sweetness and our hope,” and include statements of people dedicating themselves to her completely, body and soul, trusting her for salvation, etc., when, on that last point alone, the Bible is clear, including in Jesus’ Hebrew name of Joshua, that the Lord is our salvation, and “the Lord is my strength and my song and has become my salvation.” How can expect true, eternal good to come from contradicting God’s own Word? I shouldn’t and don’t.
God’s Word also says that those who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved, and Jesus Himself said that this eternal life: to know His Father, and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent (John 17:3).
Our prayers are something the Lord uses for us to get to know Him. He could just give us everything and solve all of our problems, or never let us have any in the first place, but our problems compel us, if we believe in Him, to go to Him, and through them, He teaches us about Himself, and we also experience Him and learn all sorts of things, especially about our relationship with Him.
So I know that eternally speaking, it is best and the only truly right way to pray, to pray only to God Himself, usually to the Father through the Son. The Lord’s Prayer isn’t exactly in that form, but since Jesus gave it to us, that is also in a sense going through Him. And over the years I’ve grown in my trust and love for the Lord by doing so, and even see when things are most troubling and threatening is when I seem never more aware of His love, concern and closeness, and learn so much about Him and the life we have in Him. He said tribulations would come, and His Word says they will all work for our good, and also says that if we delight ourselves in Him, He will give us the desires of our heart. And He has been giving me them, while showing me that to begin with I truly didn’t even know or understand that much about those desires compared to what He does.
So, I want my prayer life to help me in my spiritual life to get to know the Father and Son better, as God’s Word says, and to be in obedience to His Word on prayer and what He says about Himself.
You can get no closer to God than being with Him during the Holy Eucharist, something Catholic and Orthodox Christians have been doing for the last 2,000 years. Something your ancestors did before Martin Luther broke up Christ’s church some 500 years ago. You are truly in heaven when you’re participating in the Holy Eucharist. I feel so sorry for protestants because they can’t experience Holy Communion in the company of the Lord. No experience on earth comes close.
It’s really a shame that so many people don’t have enough trust in the promises of Jesus concerning prayer that they think that they can;t come boldly to the throne to find grace in time of trouble.
Praying to Mary and the saints displays a lack of trust in God, His faithfulness to us as He promised, and His willingness to provide for our every need as He said He would.
God is NOT a respecter of persons. He treats us all with the same love, not based on our performance, or some perceived merit system, but while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. How much more will He freely give us all things?
He’s not a stingy God, doling out grace in little packets to those who perform properly, but He LAVISHES His grace on us out of the abundance of His mercy and love.
God is not an intolerant taskmaster who needs to be appeased, but a loving Father who longs for our intimacy and fellowship. And that’s not the way God is portrayed in Catholicism with it’s constant emphasis on having to do this, that, or the other thing to qualify, or earn, God’s favor, His grace. Cause then it’s not grace any more but wages due, owed to us by God for duties performed.
It’s a sad situation to be in such bondage.
“ Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Luke 11:1-13 Now Jesus was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples.” And he said to them, “When you pray, say:
“Father, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread, and forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.”
And he said to them, “Which of you who has a friend will go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves, for a friend of mine has arrived on a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; and he will answer from within, ‘Do not bother me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I cannot get up and give you anything’? I tell you, though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his impudence he will rise and give him whatever he needs.
And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
Luke 18:1-8 And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man. And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, ‘Give me justice against my adversary.’ For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, ‘Though I neither fear God nor respect man, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice, so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.’”
And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge says. And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”
John 14:12-14 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
James 5:13-18 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the earth bore its fruit.
1 John 5:14-15 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
Hebrews 4:14-16 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
What does the Word say about our relationship with Christ?
We have been bought with a price. 1 Corinthians 6:20
The Holy Spirit lives in us. 1 Cor 3:16
The Holy Spirit is our Helper. John 14:26
We have been adopted as children into God's family. Romans 8:15-17
We are His sheep and we hear His voice John 10:27
Jesus loves us, nothing can separate us from Him. Romans 8:31-39
When we participate in the Lord's Supper we do as He commanded, "Do this in remembrance of Me."
I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
Are you sure?
As in....John the Catholic....nope..wrong!
John the Baptist!
You have verifiable proof that everyone who followed Christ....all over the world...was a member of the Roman Catholic Church?
Solid verifiable proof?
Solid?
Verifiable?
Proof?
No need to 'remember' Him if He's with ya; is there?
1 Corinthians 11:24
and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me."
Ouch!
It is hard to 'see', as it tends to accumulate between certain ears.
I have a question...where did a tax collector and a few fishermen get their degree? They listened directly to the Master, our Lord Jesus Christ. Then they wrote down His words so we too could get the words and actions of Christ directly.
How many times in the NT do we see passages as this one?:
Acts 4:
13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they had been with Jesus.
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