Posted on 12/11/2014 2:01:01 PM PST by NYer
In the Kingdom, Torah will go forth from Jerusalem, and the WHOLE WORLD will keep it. There are three Holy Days that require sojourn to Jerusalem: Passover (Pesach), Pentecost (Shavuot), and Tabernacles (Sukkot)... The prophets proclaim all three... And, btw, the weekly Sabbath (shabbat) on the seventh day too... the end of Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Zechariah would be good for starters....
YHWH's calendar, of course.
That's right - every new moon, beginning with the barley....
Correct me if I’m wrong, but there is only one Jewish Holy Day that the non-Jewish nations of the earth will be required to celebrate... and that is Sukkot! Now, there are 3 pilgrim festivals, like you indicated, but in the Millennium it will only be Sukkot. It will be to the point that those nations that don’t celebrate it, won’t get any rain that year. Considering that we are talking about the Millennial Kingdom, that all the prophecies of the Holy Days will be fulfilled... I always thought it was kind of funny the requirement for celebrating Sukkot. I just wonder if Sukkot happens to be the birth date for the King of Kings, it would make sense to celebrate, wouldn’t it?
And they mock Chanukka,but Yeshua celebrated Chanukka.
Which then does not coincide with the calendar we use today.
We use two calendars in one.
The Biblical calendar has the pagan calendar days noted too.
Now they’ve added in the Rabbinical calendar too, so it’s getting a little harder to read, but it works.
Its just a little funny to be turning a page in the middle of the pagan month.
But we have to give up this world to be ready for Yehova’s kingdom.
Perhaps I’m being very ignorant here, but it seems to me in my ignorance that little attention is being given to a piece of critically important information the Scriptures give us:
“In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary.” —Luke 1:26-27
The sixth month in the Jewish calendar is Elul, corresponding to August-September. A conception in Elul would mean a full-term birth nine months later in the month of Sivan, May-June.
Of course, we do not know that Mary conceived immediately after the visitation by Gabriel. It might have happened some time later.
Forgive me, but I do not see it the way you do - Don't think of this as correction, but rather another angle...
[...] there is only one Jewish Holy Day that the non-Jewish nations of the earth will be required to celebrate... and that is Sukkot!
First, they are not Jewish Holy Days... YHWH declared them as 'MY Holy Days'. He ordained them, and they belong to Him.
Secondly, they were not given to the Jews, but rather to the Hebrews - a 'Jew' is one of the House of Judah (the tribes of Judah, half of Benjamin, and half of Levi) - There were twelve tribes at Sinai, and participatory in receiving Torah... Those twelve tribes are still necessarily around. Anyone related to them is as bound to Torah as the Jews. Sorry, it's a sticking point for me - So many want to say that only the Jews are obliged to keep Torah...
And lastly, one cannot separate the moedim from Torah (not one jot or tittle)- If the whole world is keeping Torah (which the prophets explicitly declare), the whole world is necessarily keeping the moedim too.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
(e-Sword:KJV)
Now, there are 3 pilgrim festivals, like you indicated, but in the Millennium it will only be Sukkot. It will be to the point that those nations that dont celebrate it, wont get any rain that year.
[Only be] According to whom? I will grant you that Sukkot is mentioned with exacting specificity, but that does not exclude the rest. In fact Ezekiel 45 mentions Passover with specificity too... To find Shavuot will take some digging. Yet again, I will rest on the facts that Torah is forever, the moedim are forever, and if all the world is keeping Torah, they will all be keeping the moedim (to include the weekly Sabbath) too.
Considering that we are talking about the Millennial Kingdom, that all the prophecies of the Holy Days will be fulfilled...
Except, of course the things the prophets declare about the Holy Days within the Kingdom... : )
I always thought it was kind of funny the requirement for celebrating Sukkot. I just wonder if Sukkot happens to be the birth date for the King of Kings, it would make sense to celebrate, wouldnt it?
Perhaps, because the whole world has been getting it wrong all these years... He saw that coming and was miffed : D But really, birthdays are not celebrated by the Hebrews... That is a western/pagan thing... but it is the day in which he came to tabernacle among us - It may well be the day that He comes again!
So what? One cannot watch the new moon in the spring and see the barley is aviv? Actually, the Karaites (and others) do precisely that. The rest follows easily. I mark the Holy Days without much effort at all, except that one might find it easier if one is accustomed to taking one's bedtime tea out on the porch looking at the sky and talking to the Father (try it sometime... awesome for peace...).
You are no slacker, SkyDancer... You can figure this out - According to YHWH's calendar, the temple fell twice on the same exact day 500 years apart... I believe that very same day is when Jerusalem was plowed with salt too... According to YHWH's calendar, Torah was given at Sinai on the same day as Pentecost, all those many years apart... According to YHWH's calendar, the blood was first put on the doorposts in Egypt on the same day (I could argue the same hour) as Yeshua gave up His life those many years later. He is using HIS calendar, not ours. Study the prophets with that in mind, study events then and up to now, and you will be astonished at what you are missing.
PROOF abounds. That is why the Holy Days are still very important, and why Christian holidays mean exactly nothing.
Jesus was born sometime in the late summer or early autumn of 4 B.C.
The first time I ever made this statement to anyone I was viewed with a combination of doubt, incredulity, hostility and outright pity.
How in the world could Jesus have been born before Christ? I was asked.
It so happens that the present system in the Western Christian-professing world of counting years either prior to or subsequent to the event of our Saviors birth was not established until the work of Dionysius the Little, many, many centuries this side of the event.
In the events surrounding Jesus birth, God managed to move a whole empire by causing the world leader of that time to establish an entirely new government bureau (the taxing and census bureau) which finally resulted in Joseph and Mary ending up in Bethlehem at the time of Jesus birth! Part of the requirement of the vast worldwide census-taking was each family returning to the city of its origin (And all went to be taxed everyone (into) his own city (Luke 2:3-4), so since the Bible claimed Joseph was of the lineage of David (as both genealogical records in Matthew and Luke prove) he had to journey with his wife who was in an advanced state of pregnancy from Nazareth to Bethlehem, which is called the city of David. The census in Palestine took place in our faulty chronological reckoning about the year 4 B.C.
From early on, Mary understood that she was pregnant. She knew the meaning of the interruption of the normal menstrual cycle; after all, hadnt an angel actually told her this would happen?
Though it must have been nearly unbelievable, and there surely must have been moments of doubt, Marys training and deep religious education, including the quality of her own character and the deadly seriousness of the impending persecutions and her knowledge of glances of those in her own community, must have all been weighing heavily upon her mind as she contemplated her gradually changing form, slightly swelling belly, and growing breasts.
Even though there probably had been many sessions between husband and wife, poring over those prophecies they knew referred to what was happening within the body of Mary herself, explaining why this shocking transformation in their own private lives had turned their little world upside down, they did not have perfect understanding of many vague references later revealed by the gospel writers, and by Jesus Himself.
Naturally, Joseph and Mary had been living with the pain of growing notoriety ever since friends and relatives learned of Marys pregnancy. They were fully prepared to accept it, as Marys humble statement, Behold, the handmaiden of the Lord, clearly shows.
Still, it was tough, and they were as human as you and I.
Oh, there were close friends and relatives who knew the truth. After all, Elizabeth and Mary were cousins, and Elizabeth was carrying the baby who would grow up to become John the Baptistboth remembered the remarkable occasion when the two babies had reacted so obviously when the two expectant mothers met. Joseph and Mary could spend time with such people, away from the smirks and knowing stares of the hypocrites.
But suffered when friends talked behind their backs; they hurt when former friends shunned them; they Probably had second, or even third, thoughts about the tremendous burden they had assumed, as would any other normal human beings. But they had the courage to see it through.
It may have seemed a cruel twist of fate, to be required by the Romans to travel all that distance during the final, crucial month of pregnancy. It is clear that Joseph and Mary were not acting out any special predestined fulfillment of prophecy, or they would have seen the predictions that Christ was to be born in Bethlehem, and would have tried to travel earlier, at an easier time, and to have arranged accommodations more suitable than the hasty, last ditch improvisation of a manger.
Neither could they have known that what had appeared to be a terribly difficult trip, at best, would end up with their being exiles in a foreign country, waiting until Herod the Great had died.
Christ was not born on Christmas. Those who do not yet know this, or do not wish to know it, are either too firmly dedicated to tradition, no matter how pagan, or are too lazy to bother with simple research.
Abundant evidence exists which proves Christmas is utterly pagan in origin; as pagan as belief in Dagon, Vishnu, Baal, or Isis and Osiris.
Jesus was born in the autumn, though the exact date is kept carefully concealed. Look at the eyewitness accounts, written by those who were there. Even Herod didnt know exactly when Christ was born, or he could not have risked a massive uprising by his brutal edict to butcher helpless babies up to two years of age!
Most people have never heard the true facts surrounding Christs birth; and lodged in their minds is only a purely mythological tale which exists only in fantasy and erroneous religious tradition.
The traditional view of Jesus birth, with the loveliest manger imaginable on the face of the earth; sadly smiling shepherds leaning on their crooks; the Magi, gorgeously arrayed in obviously kingly robes with funny-looking crowns, opening up little gold boxes wherein are contained precious spices; a tiny baby nestled in the arms of mother who stares sadly at him with a halo around her head and a sweet smile curving her mouth; maybe naked little babies flitting through the heavens, and a bright star in the distance outside all this is repeated endlessly in millions of Christmas cards, religious books, journals and magazines, illustrated pages in Bibles, and on peoples front yards, rooftops, in their driveways, along roadsides, and in displays in churches at Christmastime.
But, the shepherds were not there at the birth. They came later. And there is no reason to suspect that the shepherds and the wise men ever crossed trails.
But lets ask a few questions concerning Jesus birth. How did God manage to convince the lowly and humble classes that in fact a Savior was this day being born?
He did so by the most intricate collection of divine miracles, carefully interwoven into the fabric of history, extending so far back in time that it boggles the mind.
Few realize that Michael the archangel spoke to Daniel and delivered to him the longest single prophecy in the Bible (Daniel, the 11th chapter is personal testimony from the archangel Michael) informing him of a great struggle going on among arch demons, and perhaps Satan himself.
These were influencing the mind of the Prince of Persia in order to bring about some disruption in Gods plan to cause Artaxerxes to allow the Jewish captives under Ezra to return to their homeland and reestablish the religious state.
Though it deserves a great deal of space, the miracles having to do with the precise moment of Jesus birth, the decree of Augustus, the building of the temple, the beginning of His ministry, the decrees of Cyrus and Artaxerxes, and many other related events are tightly interwoven into a careful system of intricately fulfilled prophecies to form a network of incontrovertible evidence: the fact that Jesus Christ of Nazareth was in truth the Son of God.
All the religious leaders knew, and the common folk believed intensely in, Isaiahs prophecy, Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (which means God with us in Isa. 7:14). They knew Isaiah had said, The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined for unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor [Wonder of a Counselor], the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of Hosts will perform this (Isa. 9:2-7).
But how would God manage to avoid the contemptuous slander of impostor heaped upon Jesus not only by His detractors, persecutors and religious antagonists, but even by His own closest disciples and personal friends? How would the common people, the meek, lowly shepherd and laboring class be convinced utterly that Jesus was in fact fulfilling the many prophecies of Isaiah, Daniel and others and was in fact the promised Messiah, that Prophet who should come to deliver Israel, and to qualify to inherit the throne of David?
First, God sent a humble group of shepherds from sufficiently far away that no one could claim collusion.
An angel appeared to them and said, Unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior which is Christ the Lord (Luke 2: 11). They were not. given any address, only a sign that they would find the baby wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger; meaning He would be so newly born that there would have been no opportunity for either the purchase or the making of clothes for Him, and He would still be wrapped in a soft blanket, not yet moved inside an inn or a private home, but lying in a bed of straw.
Obviously, then, the shepherds in journeying around the streets and the marketplaces of Bethlehem were asking from time to time where they could find a baby who had been born in a manger.
They were no doubt quite excited about the vision they had seen, and it is inconceivable that they were not elated with that combination of awe, fright, and yet subdued joy over having actually heard the voice of an angel, and seeing an overwhelmingly bright light seemingly coming very near to them out of the heavens. Thus they fully expected to find the Savior of mankind lying in swaddling clothes in a manger. They probably asked any number of people, and repeated time and again to the excited questions they were asked precisely what had happened.
Finally, with the question having been asked sufficiently about the town, perhaps one servant at a nearby inn recalled that Joseph or a friend had come, urgently begging the use of some basins and some heated water; that one of the females in the kitchen had rushed off to help during the birth; and that several of the women, had been exclaiming about the fact that a poor woman had to be turned out in such an advanced state of pregnancy, when a lot of other people had been put up in more suitable accommodations, and were clicking their tongues about the unfortunate happenstance that the poor lady had given birth in a stable.
Actually, the Creator was succeeding in announcing the birth through three separate groups of individuals: the shepherds themselves; all the citizenry and the townsfolk they asked and who subsequently became involved, and Joseph and his own family.
The events of the first few weeks after Jesus birth caused widespread attention. It is evident that the Idumaean Herod (he was only partly Jewish) was terribly shaken by what he had heard.
The Bible says he was troubled and all Jerusalem with him (Matt. 2:3), and claims he gathered all the chief priests (who probably were Sadducees) and scribes of the people together and demanded of them where the Christ should be born (Matt. 2:4). All of the scholars were aware that this very likely was the time of the birth of Christ.
Pious frauds and sincere scholarsastronomers, astrologers, seers and soothsayers alikewere almost universally expectant that some great event would occur at about this time, and were looking for the Messiah.
When Herod called together the chief priests and scribes of the people, this was tantamount to the President of the United States having a combined cabinet and Supreme Court meeting.
The Supreme Court of the Jewish nation was the Sanhedrin, and the greatest religious body of the nation declared in unanimity that Jesus the Savior would be born in Bethlehem, a city of David!
There is no evidence whatever of the length of time that elapsed from the moment the star (an angel, as shown by scriptures) appeared to the Magi in the east (most authorities believe Persia) until their arrival in Jerusalem; it could have been several weeks, or even months.
Following their interview with Herod, and his request that they search out carefully concerning the young child, they went outside, saw the star again, and followed it until it came and stood over where the young child was (Matt. 2:9). This was in Bethlehem, a short distance over steeply plunging trails from Jerusalem. Contrary to the assumption of millions, Jesus and His parents had found more permanent accommodations following the hasty emergency quarters in the stable, and the Magi came into the house, and saw the young child with Mary His mother, and they fell down and worshipped Him . . . (Matt. 2: 11).
That night, the wise men had a bad dream, a warning from God, and sneaked out of the country without going back into Jerusalem. After they left, Joseph also had a dream. Now when they were departed, behold an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise and take the young child and His mother, and flee into Egypt, and stay there until I tell you; for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Joseph got up, hustled Mary and the baby, and any other servants or family members who might have been with them, into their clothes, packed and loaded the animals and took off that same night, hitting the caravan route to Egypt, probably swinging further into Arabia. They probably stopped at little-known campsites, avoiding the usual water holes and towns or villages along the way. Little did Joseph know that inadvertently he was fulfilling another prophecy which said, Out of Egypt did I call my son (Hosea 11:1).
Herod waited a few days, and then, in a fit of insane rage, sent forth, and slew all the male children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had carefully learned of the wise men (Matt. 2:16).
Since it was the major trade and commercial capital, Joseph probably had business, interests in Jerusalem. His own building trade required that he deal from time to time with importers, distributors and craftsmen who were located there. So he and his family may have remained in Jerusalem up to about one year following Jesus birth, though there is no actual proof. However, the murder of the children by Herod, risky even for a despotic king, offers some proof that Herod suspected the child would have been about one year of age, or even slightly older.
After Joseph and family had been somewhere in Egypt for a time, another dream occurred; an angel said to Joseph, Get up and take the young child with his mother, and go into Israel: for they are dead that sought the young childs life (Matt. 2:19-23).
The following verse indicates Josephs first choice as a place to live probably would have been Jerusalem or its environs. But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither; and being warned of God in a dream, he withdrew into the parts of Galilee, and came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth; that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, that He should be called a Nazarene.
Being a Nazarene merely meant He was a citizen of the city of Nazareth. He is called Jesus Christ of Nazareth several times in the Bible. Jesus was not an un-common name (only the Greek form of Joshua); no doubt there was any number of individuals bearing the same name; it was quite common to name children after various attributes of God, or to include names of God (the prefix El and the suffix Yah were very commonly applied) in a persons name. The real Jesus was a Nazarene in the same sense a citizen of Chicago is a Chicagoan, or someone living in Los Angeles is an Angelino, or those in Paris are Parisians. It was not a religious title of any sort, but a geographical and political term.
From the time of the young lads return with His parents from Egypt, to the city of Nazareth, there is no further mention of Jesus until the moment He is seen sitting in the temple, both listening to questions and asking His own questions of the most learned doctors of the law, and astonishing them with His understanding and His answers (Luke 2:46-52).
Verse 5 tells us that Zachariah is from the line of Ajibah.
1 Chronicles 24 tells us that Ajibah (and thus Zachariahs) serving time in the temple was 8th.
All priests are required to serve during Passover and Shavu'ot so that adds 2 more weeks. That means Zachariah served in the temple the tenth week or the 2nd week of Sivan. After he served, Luke tells us he went home and Elizabeth got pregnant. Probably the 3rd week of Sivan.
Now Luke 1:24 says:
After these days Elizabeth his wife became pregnant, and she kept herself in seclusion for five months, saying, 25 This is the way the Lord has dealt with me in the days when He looked with favor upon me, to take away my disgrace among men.
5 months PLUS 11 weeks (almost 3 months)=8
Verse 26 says:
Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgins name was Mary.
Luke just got done talking about Elizabeths 5 months, and goes into talking about the 6 month. Luke isn't going back to the 6th month of the year, he's continuing the chronology of Elizabeth pregnancy. Which would probably be the 2nd or 3rd week of Kislev.
Verse 36:
36 And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month. 37 For nothing will be impossible with God.
Again, Elizabeths 6th month.
Next verse 38:
And Mary said, Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word. And the angel departed from her. 39 Now at this time Mary arose and went in a hurry to the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Marys greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Some Bibles put a break between verse 38 and 39, which makes one think that time passed when Mary went to see Elizabeth. But if you take out the break, you see that the angel leaves and Mary, at THIS TIME arose and went in a hurry to the hill country...
Mary conceived right away.
I hope this helps.
“Folks in that time had to be counted where they were born. At the same time they were also to pay their taxes.”
Roman censuses (censii?) were for tax purposes. Not when you paid taxes but so that an area could be assessed for taxation for the next few years. It makes no sense to send people away from their homes to do that. The Roman IRS didn’t care where you came from, only what you were worth and how much they could take.
“The Roman IRS didnt care where you came from, only what you were worth and how much they could take.”
Not much different than today!!!!!!!!!
I think it’s you who are fascinated by myths. You have a mythological history of the Church which bears little or no resemblance to actual history, and you see paganism lurking in every Christian practice, even those provably dating to the Apostles themselves, unless you can “prove” its validity on the basis of the Scriptures with your discursive reason and your own hermeneutic tradition — yes, you have one, deliberately constructed in opposition to the hermeneutic tradition of the Latin church, and following what I suspect on the basis of Acts 15 the Holy Apostles would have regarded as a judaizing heresy.
Maybe you need to brush up your Greek, and learn a little real Church history: bishops are mentioned in the New Testament, not only in the obvious places where the word episcopos is used, but also in the Apocalypse of St. John. It was the ancient custom to refer to the bishop a church as the “angel” of the church (a custom still preserved in the title “the Angel of Haran” applied to the Bishop of Bosra-Haran). St. John is not writing to bodiless powers protecting the churches of Asia Minor, but to their bishops. Seems to be rather an important office, since God sent a vision to the Apostle John and directed him to address it to a bunch of bishops.
God sent His Only-Begotten Son that all who believe in Him might have eternal life, and His Son sent the Holy Spirit, that on the Day of Pentecost in the year of His Saving Death and Resurrection made manifest the Church. That is the decisive thing. The Church’s books, those of the New Testament authored within the context of the Church that keep a record of these event, those of the Old inherited from the Old Israel that point forward to those events, are not God’s decisive self-revelation. They are not an axiom system from which one proves everything that is true, nor even everything that is true bearing on God.
Christianity is a way of life founded upon a Person, not an ideology founded on a text, not even a divinely inspired text.
Even the old, pre-VII church didn't claim that J*sus was literally born on 12/25 (besides, it originally celebrated his birth on 1/6). And now, the new liberal post-VII church, the one that insists that Adam and Eve were two ensouled apes out of a population of apes (who were all the ancestors of humanity) is becoming "fundamentalist" on 12/25!!!
You people must really hate the Book of Genesis, the way you will defend everything in the world except for it. Why don't you excise it from your bibles if it's so troublesome to you?
Why don't you ask your scientist allies what they think of this? Maybe you should submit this belief (and all your others) to their scrutiny as well!
He did? Where? Is it in Scripture?
The Catholic Church, from at least the second century, has claimed that Christ was born on December 25.
This is false. The Catholic Church has never taught that Jesus was born on December 25th. Any discussion that begins with a patently false statement is absolutely pointless.
The Catholic Church celebrates the birth of Jesus on December 25th.
Ah, but that was then and this is now!
The Catholic Church used to accept the narrative of Genesis 1-11 as actual history, but then those awful people in the trailer parks came along and now Catholics can't do this (to prove they're not Protestant, since only a Protestant would ever believe such nonsense). Meanwhile, those same awful people reject 12/25 as the literal birthday of J*sus so now those same hyper-rationalist, scientistic Catholics simply must claim that that is the very day on which he was born! See, 'cause if you don't you're a Protestant.
This notion of letting your opponents and your antipathy to them determine your theology is really not a good idea.
“Objection 3: Christ could not have been born in December since Saint Luke describes shepherds herding in the neighboring fields of Bethlehem. Shepherds do not herd during the winter. Thus, Christ was not born in winter.
Reply to Objection 3: Recall that Palestine is not England, Russia, or Alaska. Bethlehem is situated at the latitude of 31.7. My city of Dallas, Texas has the latitude of 32.8, and its still rather comfortable outside in December. As the great Cornelius a Lapide remarks during his lifetime, one could still see shepherds and sheep in the fields of Italy during late December, and Italy is at higher latitude than Bethlehem.”
Plus also the Holy Land is in the same latitude not only as mentioned above as Dallas, Texas but also both the Holy Land and Dallas TX are in the same latitude as Southern California, which would include both Los Angeles and San Diego.
Continue from Post number 139.
The worse of winter weather that would come would be very heavy rain storms. Any snow storms would come quick and be gone.
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