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Yes, Christ Was Really Born on December 25: a Defense of the Trad Date for Christmas
taylormarshall.com ^ | December 11, 2014 | Dr. Taylor Marshall

Posted on 12/11/2014 2:01:01 PM PST by NYer

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To: Former Fetus; mountn man
I agree. It is a very appropriate time for God to "tabernacle" among men. Also, during the Millennium, the nations will be required to celebrate Sukkot. Why Sukkot, of all the Jewish holidays? Could it be because it is the King's birthday? Just wondering...

In the Kingdom, Torah will go forth from Jerusalem, and the WHOLE WORLD will keep it. There are three Holy Days that require sojourn to Jerusalem: Passover (Pesach), Pentecost (Shavuot), and Tabernacles (Sukkot)... The prophets proclaim all three... And, btw, the weekly Sabbath (shabbat) on the seventh day too... the end of Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Zechariah would be good for starters....

121 posted on 12/11/2014 7:54:17 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: SkyDancer
Using which calendar?

YHWH's calendar, of course.

122 posted on 12/11/2014 8:14:15 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: editor-surveyor; SkyDancer
Yehova’s days fall only on the Biblical calendar, which revolves around the beginning of the agricultural year, the new moon immediately preceding the aviv barley in Jerusalem.

That's right - every new moon, beginning with the barley....

123 posted on 12/11/2014 8:36:27 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

Correct me if I’m wrong, but there is only one Jewish Holy Day that the non-Jewish nations of the earth will be required to celebrate... and that is Sukkot! Now, there are 3 pilgrim festivals, like you indicated, but in the Millennium it will only be Sukkot. It will be to the point that those nations that don’t celebrate it, won’t get any rain that year. Considering that we are talking about the Millennial Kingdom, that all the prophecies of the Holy Days will be fulfilled... I always thought it was kind of funny the requirement for celebrating Sukkot. I just wonder if Sukkot happens to be the birth date for the King of Kings, it would make sense to celebrate, wouldn’t it?


124 posted on 12/11/2014 8:44:19 PM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: SkyDancer

And they mock Chanukka,but Yeshua celebrated Chanukka.


125 posted on 12/11/2014 8:55:59 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: roamer_1

Which then does not coincide with the calendar we use today.


126 posted on 12/11/2014 9:10:31 PM PST by SkyDancer (I Was Told Nobody Is Perfect But Yet, Here I Am)
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To: SkyDancer; roamer_1

We use two calendars in one.

The Biblical calendar has the pagan calendar days noted too.

Now they’ve added in the Rabbinical calendar too, so it’s getting a little harder to read, but it works.

Its just a little funny to be turning a page in the middle of the pagan month.

But we have to give up this world to be ready for Yehova’s kingdom.


127 posted on 12/11/2014 9:30:39 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: NYer

Perhaps I’m being very ignorant here, but it seems to me in my ignorance that little attention is being given to a piece of critically important information the Scriptures give us:

“In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary.” —Luke 1:26-27

The sixth month in the Jewish calendar is Elul, corresponding to August-September. A conception in Elul would mean a full-term birth nine months later in the month of Sivan, May-June.

Of course, we do not know that Mary conceived immediately after the visitation by Gabriel. It might have happened some time later.


128 posted on 12/11/2014 10:06:37 PM PST by ottbmare (the OTTB mare, now a proud Marine Mom)
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To: Former Fetus
Correct me if I’m wrong, but [...]

Forgive me, but I do not see it the way you do - Don't think of this as correction, but rather another angle...

[...] there is only one Jewish Holy Day that the non-Jewish nations of the earth will be required to celebrate... and that is Sukkot!

First, they are not Jewish Holy Days... YHWH declared them as 'MY Holy Days'. He ordained them, and they belong to Him.
Secondly, they were not given to the Jews, but rather to the Hebrews - a 'Jew' is one of the House of Judah (the tribes of Judah, half of Benjamin, and half of Levi) - There were twelve tribes at Sinai, and participatory in receiving Torah... Those twelve tribes are still necessarily around. Anyone related to them is as bound to Torah as the Jews. Sorry, it's a sticking point for me - So many want to say that only the Jews are obliged to keep Torah...

And lastly, one cannot separate the moedim from Torah (not one jot or tittle)- If the whole world is keeping Torah (which the prophets explicitly declare), the whole world is necessarily keeping the moedim too.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

(e-Sword:KJV)

Now, there are 3 pilgrim festivals, like you indicated, but in the Millennium it will only be Sukkot. It will be to the point that those nations that don’t celebrate it, won’t get any rain that year.

[Only be] According to whom? I will grant you that Sukkot is mentioned with exacting specificity, but that does not exclude the rest. In fact Ezekiel 45 mentions Passover with specificity too... To find Shavuot will take some digging. Yet again, I will rest on the facts that Torah is forever, the moedim are forever, and if all the world is keeping Torah, they will all be keeping the moedim (to include the weekly Sabbath) too.

Considering that we are talking about the Millennial Kingdom, that all the prophecies of the Holy Days will be fulfilled...

Except, of course the things the prophets declare about the Holy Days within the Kingdom... : )

I always thought it was kind of funny the requirement for celebrating Sukkot. I just wonder if Sukkot happens to be the birth date for the King of Kings, it would make sense to celebrate, wouldn’t it?

Perhaps, because the whole world has been getting it wrong all these years... He saw that coming and was miffed : D But really, birthdays are not celebrated by the Hebrews... That is a western/pagan thing... but it is the day in which he came to tabernacle among us - It may well be the day that He comes again!

129 posted on 12/11/2014 10:24:06 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: SkyDancer
Which then does not coincide with the calendar we use today.

So what? One cannot watch the new moon in the spring and see the barley is aviv? Actually, the Karaites (and others) do precisely that. The rest follows easily. I mark the Holy Days without much effort at all, except that one might find it easier if one is accustomed to taking one's bedtime tea out on the porch looking at the sky and talking to the Father (try it sometime... awesome for peace...).

You are no slacker, SkyDancer... You can figure this out - According to YHWH's calendar, the temple fell twice on the same exact day 500 years apart... I believe that very same day is when Jerusalem was plowed with salt too... According to YHWH's calendar, Torah was given at Sinai on the same day as Pentecost, all those many years apart... According to YHWH's calendar, the blood was first put on the doorposts in Egypt on the same day (I could argue the same hour) as Yeshua gave up His life those many years later. He is using HIS calendar, not ours. Study the prophets with that in mind, study events then and up to now, and you will be astonished at what you are missing.

PROOF abounds. That is why the Holy Days are still very important, and why Christian holidays mean exactly nothing.

130 posted on 12/11/2014 10:45:05 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: NYer
Here we go again, the GREAT WHORE spreading her lies.
131 posted on 12/11/2014 11:38:36 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: ottbmare
Go back and read Luke 1.

Verse 5 tells us that Zachariah is from the line of Ajibah.

1 Chronicles 24 tells us that Ajibah (and thus Zachariahs) serving time in the temple was 8th.

All priests are required to serve during Passover and Shavu'ot so that adds 2 more weeks. That means Zachariah served in the temple the tenth week or the 2nd week of Sivan. After he served, Luke tells us he went home and Elizabeth got pregnant. Probably the 3rd week of Sivan.

Now Luke 1:24 says:
After these days Elizabeth his wife became pregnant, and she kept herself in seclusion for five months, saying, 25 “This is the way the Lord has dealt with me in the days when He looked with favor upon me, to take away my disgrace among men.”

5 months PLUS 11 weeks (almost 3 months)=8

Verse 26 says:
Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.

Luke just got done talking about Elizabeths 5 months, and goes into talking about the 6 month. Luke isn't going back to the 6th month of the year, he's continuing the chronology of Elizabeth pregnancy. Which would probably be the 2nd or 3rd week of Kislev.

Verse 36:
36 And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month. 37 For nothing will be impossible with God.”

Again, Elizabeths 6th month.

Next verse 38:
And Mary said, “Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her. 39 Now at this time Mary arose and went in a hurry to the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

Some Bibles put a break between verse 38 and 39, which makes one think that time passed when Mary went to see Elizabeth. But if you take out the break, you see that the angel leaves and Mary, at THIS TIME arose and went in a hurry to the hill country...

Mary conceived right away.

I hope this helps.

132 posted on 12/12/2014 1:22:23 AM PST by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
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To: diverteach

“Folks in that time had to be counted where they were born. At the same time they were also to pay their taxes.”

Roman censuses (censii?) were for tax purposes. Not when you paid taxes but so that an area could be assessed for taxation for the next few years. It makes no sense to send people away from their homes to do that. The Roman IRS didn’t care where you came from, only what you were worth and how much they could take.


133 posted on 12/12/2014 2:20:39 AM PST by Natufian (t)
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To: Natufian

“The Roman IRS didn’t care where you came from, only what you were worth and how much they could take.”

Not much different than today!!!!!!!!!


134 posted on 12/12/2014 2:23:41 AM PST by Nailbiter
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To: editor-surveyor

I think it’s you who are fascinated by myths. You have a mythological history of the Church which bears little or no resemblance to actual history, and you see paganism lurking in every Christian practice, even those provably dating to the Apostles themselves, unless you can “prove” its validity on the basis of the Scriptures with your discursive reason and your own hermeneutic tradition — yes, you have one, deliberately constructed in opposition to the hermeneutic tradition of the Latin church, and following what I suspect on the basis of Acts 15 the Holy Apostles would have regarded as a judaizing heresy.

Maybe you need to brush up your Greek, and learn a little real Church history: bishops are mentioned in the New Testament, not only in the obvious places where the word episcopos is used, but also in the Apocalypse of St. John. It was the ancient custom to refer to the bishop a church as the “angel” of the church (a custom still preserved in the title “the Angel of Haran” applied to the Bishop of Bosra-Haran). St. John is not writing to bodiless powers protecting the churches of Asia Minor, but to their bishops. Seems to be rather an important office, since God sent a vision to the Apostle John and directed him to address it to a bunch of bishops.

God sent His Only-Begotten Son that all who believe in Him might have eternal life, and His Son sent the Holy Spirit, that on the Day of Pentecost in the year of His Saving Death and Resurrection made manifest the Church. That is the decisive thing. The Church’s books, those of the New Testament authored within the context of the Church that keep a record of these event, those of the Old inherited from the Old Israel that point forward to those events, are not God’s decisive self-revelation. They are not an axiom system from which one proves everything that is true, nor even everything that is true bearing on God.

Christianity is a way of life founded upon a Person, not an ideology founded on a text, not even a divinely inspired text.


135 posted on 12/12/2014 6:22:32 AM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: NYer; Alex Murphy
Oh my goodness . . .

Even the old, pre-VII church didn't claim that J*sus was literally born on 12/25 (besides, it originally celebrated his birth on 1/6). And now, the new liberal post-VII church, the one that insists that Adam and Eve were two ensouled apes out of a population of apes (who were all the ancestors of humanity) is becoming "fundamentalist" on 12/25!!!

You people must really hate the Book of Genesis, the way you will defend everything in the world except for it. Why don't you excise it from your bibles if it's so troublesome to you?

Why don't you ask your scientist allies what they think of this? Maybe you should submit this belief (and all your others) to their scrutiny as well!

136 posted on 12/12/2014 6:37:22 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: roamer_1

He did? Where? Is it in Scripture?


137 posted on 12/12/2014 6:43:14 AM PST by JudyinCanada
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To: Arthur McGowan; NYer
The Catholic Church, from at least the second century, has claimed that Christ was born on December 25.

This is false. The Catholic Church has never taught that Jesus was born on December 25th. Any discussion that begins with a patently false statement is absolutely pointless.

The Catholic Church celebrates the birth of Jesus on December 25th.

Ah, but that was then and this is now!

The Catholic Church used to accept the narrative of Genesis 1-11 as actual history, but then those awful people in the trailer parks came along and now Catholics can't do this (to prove they're not Protestant, since only a Protestant would ever believe such nonsense). Meanwhile, those same awful people reject 12/25 as the literal birthday of J*sus so now those same hyper-rationalist, scientistic Catholics simply must claim that that is the very day on which he was born! See, 'cause if you don't you're a Protestant.

This notion of letting your opponents and your antipathy to them determine your theology is really not a good idea.

138 posted on 12/12/2014 6:43:26 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: NYer

“Objection 3: Christ could not have been born in December since Saint Luke describes shepherds herding in the neighboring fields of Bethlehem. Shepherds do not herd during the winter. Thus, Christ was not born in winter.
Reply to Objection 3: Recall that Palestine is not England, Russia, or Alaska. Bethlehem is situated at the latitude of 31.7. My city of Dallas, Texas has the latitude of 32.8, and it’s still rather comfortable outside in December. As the great Cornelius a Lapide remarks during his lifetime, one could still see shepherds and sheep in the fields of Italy during late December, and Italy is at higher latitude than Bethlehem.”

Plus also the Holy Land is in the same latitude not only as mentioned above as Dallas, Texas but also both the Holy Land and Dallas TX are in the same latitude as Southern California, which would include both Los Angeles and San Diego.


139 posted on 12/12/2014 7:07:14 AM PST by Biggirl (2014 MIdterms Were BOTH A Giant Wave And Restraining Order)
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To: All

Continue from Post number 139.

The worse of winter weather that would come would be very heavy rain storms. Any snow storms would come quick and be gone.


140 posted on 12/12/2014 7:09:45 AM PST by Biggirl (2014 MIdterms Were BOTH A Giant Wave And Restraining Order)
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