Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
No he didn't/
It’s good to see that you agree that Mary did not contribute to the divine (God part) of Jesus so thus is not the “mother of God”.
The term *mother of God* does not even address Jesus.
If someone unfamiliar with Christianity heard that term, they would not automatically think *Oh, Jesus’ mother*.
It takes all the focus off Jesus and puts it on Mary and elevates her to a position that doesn’t exist.
It ignores the humanity of Jesus and makes no reference or even implication of the Incarnation.
So why isn’t what the Holy Spirit inspired the writers of the NT to call Mary good enough for Catholics?
Why do they obviously feel the need to correct God?
“Call no man father”......
it is 4 words...how much interpretation is possible.....
Yep. Not much room for penumbras or whatever.
I stand by my statements.
You are wrong.
Which is also what their appeal to *tradition* amounts to as well.
They claim that the *sacred tradition* is needed and what other reason could there be except that the Holy Spirit neglected to include it in Scripture. After all, they remind us, it even says in John that there are many things that Jesus did that weren't recorded in Scripture.
As to your post. Jesus said this.
"nay rather, blessed are they who here the word and obey" when someone said Mary was blessed.
I've got some land in Florida to sell you. Real nice waterfront property.
Honest.
I’m fine.
I’m not the one denying that Mary is the mother of Jesus.
The Catholic chruch is the one doing that.
Bottom line is that they don’t trust that the Holy Spirit had recorded what He wanted us to know so they add stuff.
Any rational person would.
But we're not dealing with rational people when they have proved that they will believe anything to support their pet doctrine, even when the Catholic church itself admits that there is no support for it.
Sinners need grace. Anyone without sin doesn't.
If Mary had no sin, then she didn't need grace.
I have that same grace freely bestowed on me, BTW.
Mary and Grace
The word grace used in this passage in Luke is used in one other place in the Bible and that is Ephesians 1 where Paul is us that with this same grace, God has blessed us (believers) in the Beloved. IOW, we all have access to that grace and it has been bestowed on us all.
http://biblehub.com/greek/5487.htm
Luke 1:28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”
Ephesians 1:4-6 In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Greek word “grace”
charitoó: to make graceful, endow with grace
Original Word: χαριτόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: charitoó
Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ee-to'-o)
Short Definition: I favor, bestow freely on
Definition: I favor, bestow freely on.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5487 xaritóō (from 5486 /xárisma, "grace," see there) – properly, highly-favored because receptive to God's grace. 5487 (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).
Word Origin: from charis
Definition: to make graceful, endow with grace
NASB Translation: favored (1), freely bestowed (1).
Yeah, I'm getting tired of so many of the Roman Catholic's making rude and contentious remarks lacking in truth, and founded on their indoctrinated allegiance to their cult. It would really be great if they could understand all what Christ has done for us, and give up on all of their mindless, incessant drone of ignorance when presented with what the Holy Spirit can bring to our hearts and minds. After all, it is God's Spirit, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, that He promised would come.
He came. I saw. He conquered!
John 16: 7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me; 10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”
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Well, it was only an exact, word-for-word quote of your post #255, and a response to that post. If your post had nothing to do with the topic being discussed, you shouldn't have posted it.
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"As to your post. Jesus said this. 'nay rather, blessed are they who here the word and obey' when someone said Mary was blessed."
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You really should read a bit more carefully, CynicalBear.
First of all, I think the word you were looking for in the Bible text you quoted was "yea", not "nay". (Check it again.)
And the person didn't say Mary was blessed, they said "blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that nursed you". Those are body parts, and while they are indeed blessed (having actually touched, bore, and nursed Jesus Christ), Jesus is saying the "whole person" who willingly obeys (which also applies to Mary -- remember she said "Be it done unto me according to thy word"?) is really where the blessing is fullest upon. Mary is blessed, whether you agree with that or not. It is the truth.
Then, my mind wandered and wondered how much MORE faith did it take for Joseph??? Here was his betrothed, swelling with child, and he had nothing to do but watch! By all rights and TRADITION, he should have sent her away!
It seems his faith should be celebrated as much or more than Mary, due to his steadfastness to his faith in God! He took the child and treated Him as a son...
I learn about joseph's obedience and faith in God.
He obeyed God by still taking Mary in as his wife. He controlled himself by not having sex with her before Jesus' birth - so as to fulfill God's word that Christ will be born of a virgin.
He also received a dream from the angel of God and he believed the message.
God uses people who believe and obey
So in fact you believe that "Non-RCC Christians talk up Jesus as Christ and Lord of Heaven and earth and RCC proponents talk up the superiority of the RCC non-Scriptural beliefs that, in fact, deny and not just minimize Lord Jesus Christ as the Living Word of God...?"
Lately I've noticed that Mary is more prominent in Catholicism than Jesus.
Which again is something i just affirmed, and which does not refute what i said any more than your other attempts at damage control refute what was said.
Give it up.
For what purpose is she a help?
The same purpose as you praying for others, and others praying for you. You don’t believe in the need for that, I suppose?
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