Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

Charisma News ^ | 12/3/14 | Mark Andrews

[marshmallow]

"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.

On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).

On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.

It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."

Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."

If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?

"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."

To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....

[Elsie]

Instead, I'm just supposed to believe whatever everyone tells me without question.

Isn't this a HALLMARK of the very essence of Catholicism?

Questioning gets you Luther.

Why?

Because 'everyone knows' that many RCC answers are not sufficient to address the question posted.

[Elsie]

...we do have personal responsibility for our sinfulness and must atone for our shortcomings through the Sacrament (instituted by Christ) of penance.

I can smell the brimstone from my porch!

[Elsie]

unless you eat of the flesh of the son.....oh well, you know that and if you choose to ignore it....good luck, I'd never even dare to do it.

Call no man FAther...oh well, you know that and if you choose to ignore it....good luck, I'd never even dare to do it.

[Elsie]

Why have you inserted a word and made it out to be mine ? Why would you do such a thing ?

Perhaps this reply was to go in Vlad's direction.

[Elsie]

...the cajoling and the pushing to get your way.

it's called Passive-Agressive

[Elsie]

I, myself, prefer PROvoluted.

[Elsie]

One more caught my eye as I scrolled down the page, “from her union with Christ” in Ad Caeli Reginam.

Poor ol' Joe; as he NEVER got no 'union' with his lovely wife.

[Elsie]

AF: If people are shy, embarrassed, secretive, ashamed, or just unwilling to honestly share the group they think is a genuine church and with whom they assemble to share their faith, it makes me wonder why the bother attacking Catholics and their faith, which happens here every day.

 

RSTZ: ...honestly share (with) the group...

 

AF: You admit you falsely attributed a word to me to make what I did write appear different.

 

Hello; it was inserted parenthetically, a COMMON usage to clarify what was said.

 

===================================================================

Modifying Quotations:

Normally you quote using the author's exact words. There are several occasions when you might wish to modify the quotation.

1. If the quotation is very long, you can shorten it by replacing unnecessary words or phrases with three periods, known as ellipsis. Placing square brackets around the ellipsis, for example [. . .], makes it clear that you have eliminated something. See the example above, under "Block Quotations."

2. Sometimes when you quote, you must insert a word or two to clarify the quotation or to make it grammatically correct:

Nurse Rosanna recalls that "while she [Dolan's sister] spoke she reached for the silver locket around her neck" (Rimini 384).

3. Rare: If you want to emphasize particular words or phrases within a quotation, use italics and then in square brackets write [emphasis added]. For example,

Gorn doesn't pull any punches with regard to Ambrose's mistakes:

Not only does his [Ambrose's] practice violate universally accepted canons of historical scholarship, but most professors would routinely fail any student who so casually adopted it. [emphasis added] (B10)

You would not put [emphasis added] if the original text was italicized. In fact, if the source you are quoting does include bold or italic text, it is best to put [emphasis in the original] to make sure the reader knows you didn't add any.

 http://library.spokanefalls.edu/guides/quotingMLAstyle.stm

 

 

[Elsie]

In any case, God is merciful to those who sincerely repent.

Even those who PROPTEST the RCC?

[Elsie]

Then why protest on a thread about Catholics and nonCatholic Christians finding unity in Messiah ?

I agree hole-heartedly!!

[Elsie]

It allowed you to tell a modest, limited, accurate truth rather than a fat, flabby universalized lie. ... while IMPLYING that Everyone is doing, saying, or believing it.

[Elsie]

It is shameful. It wounds her dignity, and it wounds those who love her. Did you want to do that?

Yes!

I want them SO pissed (it's in the bible*) that they start to LOOK at what the BOOK says versus what they've been taught!

* http://biblehub.com/topical/p/pisseth.htm

[Elsie]

No loving Christian ever described the Virgin Mary this way.

Then I guess I am a TRUE Scotsman.

[Elsie]

Are virgins, by definition, 'frigid'?

Are Catholics, by definition, illogical?

[Elsie]

It is shameful. It wounds her dignity, and it wounds those who love her.

Boo hoo!

Where is the SHAME in calling a spade a spade?

YOUR 'church' has placed the albatross around her neck.

IT has made the claim that she and Joseph NEVER consummated their marriage.

There is the SHAME!

and there lies the INDIGNITY!

[Elsie]

It is shameful. It wounds her dignity, and it wounds those who love her.

If you are wounded; it is NOT my fault.

[Elsie]

You could avoid that by refraining from insulting Jesus' mother with your more demeaning comments.

Like Mary and Joseph NEVER had INTERCOURSE?

YOUR chosen religion teaches that.

The BIBLE says:

1 Corinthians 7:5
Don't withhold yourselves from each other unless you agree to do so for a set time ...

[vladimir998]

“You are going tangent on me.”

Not only do you beat the dead horse, but the wrong dead horse.

“It was a question, something about asking if it was a south park video.”

It was a “trick” - that’s what you called it.

“It was when you were trying to trick me into allowing you to debate me with youtube links.”

Nope. I wasn’t trying to trick you in the least. You keep saying that in different ways. People do that sort of thing to salve their own conscience when they should be doing the right thing instead.

“I didn’t fall for it.”

Well, you can’t fall for what didn’t exist but you apparently fell for something worse. You apparently fell for your own line of nonsense. Keep beating that dead horse.

[Elsie]

It does not advance mutual goodwill and understanding, and it displays a repellent face to non-believers who may have unfortunately skimmed though some of this tainted dialogue.

I 'understand' that Catholics ONLY want their side of the story told.

Any 'repelling' done is from the Catholic side; which is so rigid and dogmatic that they CHEER when opposing views are ELIMINATED!

I see the Moderator removed yours at #1747.

[Elsie]

Thank you!