Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

Charisma News ^ | 12/3/14 | Mark Andrews

[marshmallow]

"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.

On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).

On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.

It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."

Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."

If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?

"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."

To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....

[boatbums]

>>Actually, as we all know The Holy Spirit inspired the early Catholic Church to write the scriptures and thus the Bible..<<

History (even the Catholic version of it) has shown that the various books of the NT were circulating thru the early churches BEFORE the 'catholic church' was even formed.

Not to mention over HALF of the Bible (OT) was written over a thousand years BEFORE Christianity existed. Funny how they seem to forget that part.

[Syncro]

Good question, I have no idea

Nice profile page btw

[boatbums]

But one of the less-than-good aspects of a Christian Culture is that many people follow along more from conformism or inertia than from conviction. Some people seemingly have to lie sick in a dungeon as a prisoner of war or take a cannonball to the knee before they really realize that God has come with power, God claims them and God ain't into compromise.

I agree. I'm reminded of the saying, "Sometimes you have to be flat on your back before you look up."

[boatbums]

If one is Sola Scriptura, I would expect one would cleave to "my savior" or "our savior" rather than use marketing techniques to try to appeal to the individualism, rebelliousness, and separatism of Americans. I understand the desire among the Gentiles to develop their own personal holy tradition, I really do. It is utter foolishness to introduce Yeshua as one's personal Messiah. Mr. and Mrs. O'Malley, may I present to you to my personal wife ?

I don't understand your aversion to the word "personal". I've already shown you throughout Scripture where this concept is well attested to. That you consider the term "foolishness" smacks of pettiness and nitpicking. The doctrine of sola Scriptura also is not impugned by wording ideas and thoughts in vernaculars or in a way that people fully grasp the meaning. Jesus was all over the place preaching the need for people to have a personal relationship with God rather than trusting in a community or familial one. We probably all know people who say they are Christian, but who, through their actions and words, show that there hasn't been a personal commitment to Christ.

One more thing, sola Scriptura does not mean every single word MUST be in Scripture, just that it is taught and proven BY Scripture. So, no, trusting in Jesus Christ as my personal savior is HARDLY a "marketing technique" invented by Billy Graham. He'd probably LOL if he heard that.

[boatbums]

Isn't it ironic how whenever a former Roman Catholic tries to discuss their disagreement with certain Roman Catholic doctrines and reasons for leaving, they are accused of trying to “scrape off the indelible mark” of Roman Catholicism? It is never simply that we have valid reasons for rejecting what was forced on us at birth or that we have come to saving faith in Jesus Christ that we didn't know as Roman Catholics. I think the intent is to ambush any disagreements by accusations of wrong motives. It doesn't work, but that won't stop some from trying.

[Rome2000]

Thanks

[Elsie]

For 1600 years, ALL Christians were Catholics, then some broke away from the church and "protested"..

BECAUSE THE LEADERSHIP OF THE 'CHURCH' LITERALLY WHEN TO HELL!

[Elsie]

Whine Alert!!!

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Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.^[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.^[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.^[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony^[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

[Elsie]

Now, however, the ONLY TRUE AND COMPLETE Christians are Catholics.

Says a loud mouthed, Catholic braggert!

[Elsie]

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

 

Matthew 1:25 

 And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

 

 

 

 

which Rome translated to English from,  the Vulgate;

 

which Rome translated to Latin from,  the earliest manuscripts in Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew;

 

that were selected and compiled from LOTS of  writings produced in the early days of Christianity.

 

 

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Do you know that TERYCARL approves of this book?

It seems to me that he should BELIEVE what it says; too.

[Elsie]

Why do you tend to spam threads with so many posts ? Is that a method to silence those you oppose.

It appears that this should have gone to Vlad; but since it didn't, I'll answer your question...

I spam to get what the SCRIPTURES say on a subject.

One that is usually brought up, emphasized, repeated by Wannabe_Catholic_Apologists: which in modern terms is known as PIMPING YOUR BLOG.

The NON-biblical teachings of Rome are PROUDLY posted in these threads; and are praised by it's members as the ONLY TRUE interpretations.

I get the impression that ROME does NOT like opposing views, because some of it's followers tend to get REALLY huffy when they are expressed here on FR - a quite wonderful place to be!

---

(The above sentence was shameless sucking up to management by a RABID PROTestant.)

[Elsie]

I'm not complaining too much though, as you have mostly left off posting Mormon scriptures.

Curiously, when I do, the Mormons that I ping, to get their attention, never seem to want to CONTEND FOR THE FAITH ONCE GIVEN TO THE SAINTS.

Strange; eh?

[Elsie]

...accept responsibility for our actions and personally accept Christ's word when He said "this is My body" ,

And IGNORE what Matthew wrote in 1:25 when he said TILL.

[Elsie]

But we've noticed the many times you've shoved your claim of this onto (select?) non-RCC posters.

I live rent free in the Mormon G.W. mind; I may as well have vacation homes in our FR Catholic heads as well.

[Elsie]

There is no binding command on Christians to destroy buildings once used by pagans.

Merely SCRIPTURAL descriptions of it being done.

[Elsie]

Once again you have failed.

Till...

[Elsie]

When Christ established the Catholic church He gave her the authority to establish rules in order to better be able to shepherd His flock.

And you guys have done a really good job of making them up; I must say!

[Elsie]

The church, in order to assure compliance...

[Elsie]

Nothing is impossible with the power of God behind it?

Having any luck asserting your churches POWER lately?

Hee hee HEE!

[Elsie]

...Catholics give in to provocation and lose their tempers, especially when blessed Mary is insulted from their perspective.