Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

Charisma News ^ | 12/3/14 | Mark Andrews

[marshmallow]

"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.

On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).

On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.

It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."

Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."

If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?

"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."

To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....

[CynicalBear]

Unlike Catholics Protestants and those not affiliated are not bound by the “doctrine” of the organized religions. And for sure all Christians as the apostles and those first believers were called are not bound to any doctrines of organized religion. I’m sure that gives Catholics nightmares but it’s true.

[CynicalBear]

>>“So Jesus got is divine nature from Mary?”

Is that what I said? Nope.<<

So was Jesus human nature divine?

[vladimir998]

“First you falsely accuse me of being anti Catholic and you were called on it—to prove it.”

I am under no obligation whatsoever to satisfy your demands.

“You can’t, so you attribute a quote to me that I did not post.”

And in the end it doesn’t even matter because anti-Catholics are all the same:

“To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation. There are indeed able men who can make a striking case out of anything or nothing, as great painters give a meaning and a unity to the commonest bush, and pond, and paling and stile: genius can do without facts, as well as create them; but few possess the gift. Taking things as they are, and judging of them by the long run, one may securely say, that the anti-Catholic Tradition could not be kept alive, would die of exhaustion, without a continual supply of fable.” (John Henry Newman, Lecture 4. True Testimony Insufficient for the Protestant View)

“And you expect to have credibility?”

With anti-Catholics - people who act as John Henry Newman says above - is any needed? Is any enough?

“None, zero, nada at all. Period.”

And it doesn’t even matter because there’s no reason to believe you would have listened to the truth anyway. You’ve already demonstrated that often enough.

[vladimir998]

“You need to take a rest.”

No, you need to see the truth.

“STOP falsely attributing posts to me that I did not post!”

Wow, this is how your post comes across: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M8szlSa-8o

[vladimir998]

“So was Jesus human nature divine?”

Is that what I said anywhere?

[CynicalBear]

Was Jesus human divine or God?

[JPX2011]

Unlike Catholics Protestants and those not affiliated are not bound by the “doctrine” of the organized religions.

Oh, of course not. They're just bound by sola scriptura and an interpretative hermeneutic that is subject to nothing but the whims of their own personal preference. "Scripture spoke to my heart and my duty to my unborn child is now clear. I must return him or her to God."

So what if they decided to assemble? The rot is still present whether it is of a corporate or individual nature.

And for sure all Christians as the apostles and those first believers were called are not bound to any doctrines of organized religion. I’m sure that gives Catholics nightmares but it’s true.

The only nightmare present is the protestant who acts like an Occupy Wall Streeter with their prejudice against organization.

[CynicalBear]

You need to understand. I don’t care what Protestants think or teach or believe. It’s the original Greek I go to and there I find that Jesus called Peter a pebble, something a man can pick up a toss. Jesus said He would build His ekklesia on a solid rock such as protrudes from a cliff which cannot be moved.

[metmom]

The term "Mother of God" came out of the Council Ephesus (431 AD)specifically to uphold he Biblical rtuth about Jesus and refute the Nestorian heresy. Jesus possesses fully the nature of God and the nature of man: we can describe Him as true God and true man.

However the title *mother of GOD* does not even address Jesus so it in no way corrects any heresies about His nature.

All it does is compound further error.

If there was a problem with people's understanding of the nature of Jesus, the correct response would have been correcting it with Scripture in which there is PLENTY of material to use.

Changing Mary's title from Mother of Jesus to Mother of God does nothing to correct errant teaching about Jesus' nature and does everything to introduce errant teaching about who Mary is and the nature of God.

[CynicalBear]

>>By whom he hath given us most great and precious promises: that by these you may be made partakers of the divine nature: flying the corruption of that concupiscence which is in the world (2 Peter 1:4).<<

Once again the Catholic Church twists the meaning of scripture. The Greek word used is koinónos which means a sharer, partner, or a companion. I can share or partner with someone but that doesn't make me that person. Neither by becoming sharers or companions with God do we become divine or a god. The Catholics and the Mormons need to get together and figure that out.

[af_vet_1981]

Αἱ μὲν οὖν ἐκκλησίαι καθ' ὅλης τῆς Ἰουδαίας καὶ Γαλιλαίας καὶ Σαμαρείας εἶχον εἰρήνην οἰκοδομουμέναι καὶ πορευομέναι τῷ φόβῳ τοῦ κυρίου καὶ τῇ παρακλήσει τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος ἐπληθύνοντο

Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning "universal"[1][2]) comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (katholou), meaning "on the whole", "according to the whole" or "in general", and is a combination of the Greek words κατά meaning "about" and ὅλος meaning "whole".[3][4] The word in English can mean either "including a wide variety of things; all-embracing" or "of the Roman Catholic faith" as "relating to the historic doctrine and practice of the Western Church.".[5] ("Catholicos, the title used for the head of some churches in Eastern Christian traditions, is derived from the same linguistic origin).

The term Catholic (usually written with uppercase C in English) was first used to describe the Christian Church in the early 2nd century to emphasize its universal scope. In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages. In non-ecclesiastical use, it derives its English meaning directly from its root, and is currently used to mean the following:

universal or of general interest; liberal, having broad interests, or wide sympathies;[6] or inclusive, inviting and containing strong evangelism. The term has been incorporated into the name of the largest Christian communion, the Catholic Church (also called the Roman Catholic Church). However, many other Christians use the term "Catholic" (sometimes with a lower-case letter "c") to refer more broadly to the whole Christian Church or to all believers in Jesus Christ regardless of denominational affiliation.[7][8] Theologians writing in English will sometimes use the term "Church Catholic" or "Church catholic" to avoid confusion between this concept and the Catholic Church.[citation needed]

The Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, and some Methodists believe that their churches are "Catholic" in the sense that they are in continuity with the original universal church founded by the Apostles. However, each church defines the scope of the "Catholic Church" differently. For instance, the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox churches each maintain that their own denomination is identical with the original universal church, from which all other denominations broke away.

Almost all Christians who call themselves "Catholic" believe that bishops are considered the highest order of ministers within the Christian religion.[9] Along with unity, sanctity, and apostolicity, catholicity is considered one of Four Marks of the Church,[10] in line with the Nicene Creed of 381: "I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church."

[unread]

Anyone who takes away from or adds to the word of God will have their name removed from the "Book of life"....

If you like cloak and dagger, conspiracy, that sort of thing...a LOT of truth as well.. try this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GijmNGyBJE0

BUT...bring your tin foil hat and your lunch...it is long.. but so so interesting.!!

[Kackikat]

Jesus did not say he would build his church on Peter. Peter answered his question, and his answer was what Jesus said he would build his church on. Seriously, do you think God would build his church on an fallible human being, and one who had denied Christ three times? Unbelievable.

Classes in Reading Comprehension for those who believe that.

[Syncro]

You have no idea what anti Catholic means yet you use it over and over again.

There are no anti Catholics posting on the Religion Forum.

If there were, they would be asked to leave.

[af_vet_1981]

Which denomination, sect, or group do you regularly assemble with every Sunday ? Even though you used all caps it did not place your textual constructs in the scripture. I did find this. Do you believe it ?

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[Mrs. Don-o]

The teaching about "Theotokos" only confuses people who refuse explanation.

Some ask, "Was Jesus human divine or God?"

Explanation: Yes.

[JPX2011]

Changing Mary's title from Mother of Jesus to Mother of God does nothing to correct errant teaching about Jesus' nature and does everything to introduce errant teaching about who Mary is and the nature of God.

Mary's title was originally Mother of God, Theotokos. It was Nestorius, the heretic who attempted to change it to Mother of Jesus and was roundly condemned for it precisely because it introduced errant teaching to the Faithful on the nature of Christ.

[Kackikat]

Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost/Spirit WE are made in the image of God, and we are triune. We have a body, a spirit, and a soul.

[vladimir998]

“You have no idea what anti Catholic means yet you use it over and over again.”

I know not only what it means but I use it accurately.

“There are no anti Catholics posting on the Religion Forum.”

Honestly, I would be laughing out loud at that comment if it were not so out of touch with reality.

“If there were, they would be asked to leave.”

Nope. I think there’s a way to show that you’re wrong, but I have no expectation that you would follow through.