Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
From your lips to...
Two Jesuit novices both wanted a cigarette while they prayed. They decided to ask their superior for permission.
The first asked but was told no.
A little while later he spotted his friend smoking and praying. "Why did the superior allow you to smoke and not me?" he asked.
His friend replied, "Because you asked if you could smoke while you prayed, and I asked if I could pray while I smoked!"
Absolutely
To: vladimir998Footnote: It’s about the fact that it’s just yet another cut and paste of what has been explained countless times in threads on FR.Mary is the all holy one: "By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the 'Mother of Mercy,' the All-Holy One," (CCC 2677).
- Devotion to Mary: "The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary," (CCC. 971).
- Pray to Mary: "Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church. When we pray to her, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father," (CCC 2679).
- Mary is worshipped: "...when she [Mary] is the subject of preaching and worship she prompts the faithful to come to her Son..." (Vatican Council II, p. 420). See quote in Context
- No Better way than to look to Mary: "After speaking of the Church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary," (CCC 972).
- "so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother," (Vatican Website: Encyclical of Pope Leo 13th on the Rosary, Octobri Mense, Pope Leo 13th, 1903-1914).
- Mary brings us the gifts of Eternal Life: Mary, "...by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation...(CCC par. 969).
- Mary made atonement for the sins of man: "...Mary, by her spiritual entering into the sacrifice of her divine son for men, made atonement for the sins of man and (de congruon) merited the application of the redemptive grace of Christ. In this manner she cooperates in the subjective redemption of mankind." (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Ott, page 213).
Yes, you have been shown countless times what your belief system teaches, yet many of you still deny it.
Mary is the centerpiece of Catholicism these days. Prophecy being fulfilled, no fault of yours.
This part is interesting:
"...Mary, by her spiritual entering into the sacrifice of her divine son for men, made atonement for the sins of man...Mary was at the foot of the cross, not on it with Jesus.
Only Jesus "made [makes} atonement for the sins of man."
CORRECTION:
Best of all, He (Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God) knows us, loves us, died for us while still we were yet sinners, and has made many sure promises of eternal life to us including by the leading and sealing of (the) Holy Spirit.
Whoa there. Lets see who deifies man.
CCC 460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."
That's official Catholic Church position for those who didn't know what CCC means.
Much as catholics are wrong on the immaculate conception as it too contradicts the Word as all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.You seem to have a grudge against Protestants.It is the protestant that is wrong.
You may as well include the millions of non Protestant Christians in your accusation.
That is good.
Speaking of smoking (or fill in another such taboo), there are preachers who limit God’s ability to bring unto Him only those who conform to their religious rituals, rules, or traditions. God is in a box.
These leaders presume to dictate what God meant when He said, “Whomsoever will,” so many a person believes the words of man and doesn’t believe that God would save them.
I think it’s about control, like the Pharisees who presumed to find fault with Christ healing on the Sabbath and Who told the man to pick up his bed (oops, another “no, no” under Jewish tradition) and walk.
“This post of yours is a prime example why a great many RC responses on this thread are so dense-headed and inane.”
I bet you don’t even see the irony of your comment.
“You swim in the kiddy pool all your religious life, sucking from a milk teat, not able to grow because your indoctrination keeps you stunted and unable to handle the meatier aspects of such discussion on an eighth-grade level.”
No, actually it’s the exact opposite. God saved me from Protestantism. I have been blessed with a steady diet of real red meat for more than two decades now - and really much of my life in preparation for things which God set before me. Today we’re just posting on the internet, but last night I got to spend time with some amazing people all of whom love Christ and His Church. A number of them are converts to the Catholic faith.
There’s nothing you can post that overshadows the truth I have been shown by God, seen in His people, read in His Word, studied with His Church, or lived in His grace. What anti-Catholics post here for all of errors, half-truths, misrepresentations, distortions, lies, and idiocies simply can’t come close to what God has allowed me to see, experience, learn and live through His grace in His Church. I may fail to convey that in post after post for I am not articulate enough to convey the majesty that is God (for that I rely on Ecclesiasticus 43:1-37 and for my part in it 51:1-38).
Amen and Amen! I thank the Father for choosing me to come unto Him and giving me the faith I need also to believe. Paul teaches even THAT is not of ourselves. God gets all the glory for everything.
“Which of course you cannot say as I am not anti Catholic.”
It is not you who will decide that.
“Ok then, as if I said you don’t accept the Holy Spirit as part of the Godhead. Hmmmm, possibility...I’ve never seen anyone try so hard to pry the Holy Spirit away from the Son and the Father.”
So you’re saying you’ve never seen someone try so hard to do something I have never even attempted? Your comment not makes no sense.
Those most instrumental in getting legalized abortion. Palosi, Kennedy, Biden, all of the same religion. Should we go on and count from each what the religion of those who push for abortion are from?
So, you post something even MORE outrageous??? Here's the thing...when non-Catholics read the various prayers, books, encyclicals of popes and observe Catholics bowing down to statues of "Mary", caressing and kissing "her" feet, dedicating their pontificates, making offerings, having parades, etc., the lines between what is "worship" and what is merely veneration get blurred. In fact, you can declare your church doesn't officially sanction Mary worship, but you cannot deny that many Catholics do it anyway.
So, no, it is HARDLY equally true what you claim "Protestants" do with babies at Christmas. Your lame attempt at hyperbole fell flatter than a latke.
LOL Tell me about it. My legs are really bad because of the polio and a while back I fell and tore the rotor cuff in both shoulders. I couldn't even hold a pencil or take my socks off. Talk about feeling old.
“Which of course you cannot say as I am not anti Catholic.”
It is not you who will decide that.
LOL it’s already a solid fact.
Do you “decide” differently?
In that case, it is not you who will decide that you don’t understand the Holy Spirit and God.
And Jesus said to him “you are a pebble”.
Simple question...did the Son of God, second person of the Trinity, exist BEFORE he was incarnated?
I remember this from my Roman Catholic upbringing:
Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
I never understood why I was supposed to pray to someone dead, like Mary or the dead Apostles, who aren’t God. Later, when I grew up and didn’t attend Catholic church, I actually began to read the Bible.
Christ gave the example of how to pray to the Father. Christ is our High Priest. Before & after the work of the Cross, there aren’t instructions to pray to Mary or any of the Saints.
Speaking of which, Paul teaches everyone who is a believer is a saint.
So, you’re either a saint or ya ain’t.
What a racket.
Catholics get to decide everything about every body and scream like a stuck pig when they think someone else is doing it to them.
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