Apologists Concerned About Rick Warren's Alignment With 'Holy Father'

Charisma News ^ | 12/3/14 | Mark Andrews

[marshmallow]

"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.

On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).

On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.

It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."

Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."

If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?

"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."

To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....

[Elsie]

Jesus conversed with Elijah and Moses.

In HEAVE?

And Luke 16:19-30 - parable of the rich mans and Lazarus.

In Heaven?

[Elsie]

We are splitting hairs about the language.

Yes we are.

Details.

De debble is in 'em.

[Elsie]

Mary is not worshipped, but honored.

There is ZERO biblical instruction that she is to be 'honored'.

To be so slavishly 'devoted' to.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Uh.... Jesus is God. And Jesus is one Person, not two. And that Person is God, one of the three Persons of the Trinity.

She did not become the Mother of God until the Incarnation, when Christ our God became her unborn child. BTW, Show me the terms *Trinity* or *Incarnation* anywhere in Scripture.

[marshmallow]

Neither can be cited as an example of preaching Scripture in the PRESENCEof Apostolic Tradition.

One's an Apostle, chosen by Jesus. The other was ordained by the Apostles.

What's not "Apostolic" about that?

[Elsie]

What Philip said was "Tradition" by definition.

Who gets to define?

The bible records NOTHING that Philip said!

[Mrs. Don-o]

I"I’m fine. I’m not the one denying that Mary is the mother of Jesus. The Catholic church is the one doing that."

Once again, metmom my friend --- and I do mean "friend,"since we have known each other --- mostly on a satisfactory basis :o) --- for a long time ---you should be more careful with how you express yourself. When you state falsehoods like this about other peoples' religious beliefs, it tends to damage your credibility. It disappoints me, saddens me, really.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Is Jesus one Person or two?

[Mrs. Don-o]

The whole point here, is not that she was the "source of God" or "older than Go" but that she was the birth-giver. The Word existed from all eternity, the Second Person of the Trinity. Then the Word was made Flesh and became Man. And this Man was born. She gave Him birth.

You don' have any objections here, do you?

[Elsie]

Oral preaching by an Apostle is exactly what is meant by Apostolic Tradition.

Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

 

Stick to the words recorded, and you'll get no argument from me.

Add other stuff and I'll be on you like... well; you know.

[Elsie]

You are right.

[Elsie]

When liberals and Catholics are stumped they attach the messenger.

Will someone PLEASE get me DOWN??

[Elsie]

He is wrong.

[Arthur McGowan]

It’s not a “continuation of Catholic reasoning.”

You think ANY Catholic is moronic enough to believe that the Trinity owes its existence to Mary?

What do you hope to accomplish by telling Catholics over and over and over again that they believe idiotic things that ALL Catholics know full well they DON’T believe? What kind of spiritual sickness makes a person do that?

It’s malicious, willful misinterpretation of what the title was always intended to signify.

It has been explained to you in excruciating detail precisely what the title always meant, and what it never meant, but because of your blinding hatred of the Catholic Church, you choose to repeat and repeat your deliberate misrepresentations of it.

Your intellectually dishonest posts are full of hate, hostility, and malice. Of course, I can never “prove” this to you, but every intellectually honest third party who has been reading this thread knows this to be the case. You need to dig into your soul and discover the root cause of the malice that is there.

[Elsie]

You are right; again.

[Elsie]

I am wrong; still.

[Elsie]

You are right always.

[Elsie]

We are all wrong.

[Elsie]

Once again; your rightness is shown.

[Elsie]

Those Prots are infinitely wrong.