Rick Warren’s Call for Christians to Unite With Catholics, ‘Holy Father’ Raising Concerns

http://christiannews.net ^ | December 2, 2014 | Heather Clark

[NKP_Vet]

In a new video, megachurch leader and author Rick Warren is calling for Christians to unite with Roman Catholics and “Pope Francis,” who Warren recently referred to as the “Holy Father”—a move that is raising concerns among Christians nationwide and is resulting in calls for Warren to repent.

Warren made the comments following his visit to the Vatican last month, where he spoke at an interfaith conference on the “Complementarity of Man and Woman.”

“We have far more in common than what divides us,” he said in the two-minute video released by the Catholic News Service on Wednesday, described as being an outline for “an ecumenical vision for Catholics and Protestants to work together to defend the sanctity of life, sex and marriage.”

“They would all say, ‘We believe in the Trinity; we believe in the Bible; we believe in the resurrection; we believe in salvation through Jesus Christ,” Warren asserted, speaking of the various denominations within Christianity, of which he included Roman Catholicism. “These are the big issues.”

The author of the bestselling book “The Purpose Driven Life” then sought to defend Catholics from those who take issue with the practice of seeking the intercession of Mary and the various deceased persons that have been sainted by the Vatican.

“Sometimes protestants think that Catholics worship Mary like she’s another god, but that’s not exactly Catholic doctrine,” Warren contended. “People say, ‘What are the saints all about? Why are you praying to the saints?’ And when you understand what they mean by what they’re saying, there’s a whole lot more commonality [that we have with Roman Catholics].”

“There’s still real differences—no doubt about that,” Warren stated. “But the most important thing is, if you love Jesus, we’re on the same team.”

He closed by speaking of his belief that Christians and Catholics serve as co-laborers for the cause of defending life and family.

“When it comes to the family, we are co-workers in the field in this for the protection of the sanctity of life, the sanctity of sex and the sanctity of marriage,” Warren said. “So, there’s a great commonality and there’s no division on any of those three.”

But Warren’s comments have raised concern from Christian leaders nationwide, who are now calling the Saddleback leader to repentance. Matt Slick of the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (CARM) repudiated each of Warren’s points.

“Sure, there are Catholics who love the real Christ, the one who died on the cross for our sins. That is not the problem,” he said. “The problem is the Roman Catholic Church’s false teachings concerning Mary and salvation.”

“Rick Warren says both the Catholics and the Protestants believe in the Bible. But, there is a significant difference between the Bible of the Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church, which has added seven books,” Slick wrote. “[T]here are numerous problems in the apocryphal books, such as the teaching of salvation by works [and] the offering of money for the sins of the dead.”

“Warren implies that both Protestants and Catholics have the same view of salvation,” he continued. “Though it’s technically correct to say that Catholics believe in salvation through Jesus Christ, they reject justification by faith alone in Christ alone. Instead, it teaches that good works of various kinds are necessary for salvation.”

The Christian apologist then pointed to several Roman Catholic teachings on Mary, mainly from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), such as that Mary “by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation” and that “[b]y asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All-Holy One.”

“Rick Warren has not only failed to recognize the problems in these serious areas, but he has lent his credibility as a Protestant pastor in support of the Roman Catholic Church,” Slick wrote. “This should never be done by any Protestant pastor who takes the Bible seriously. I must conclude that Mr. Warren does not take the word of God seriously and/or he does not understand the damnable teachings of Roman Catholicism regarding salvation.”

“Rick Warren needs to repent,” he said.

[WVKayaker]

... they would see that most "conversions" are the result of a desire for a way of worship more in line with their indigenous pagan beliefs and the prospects of economic advancement. ...

Hahahahahaaaaa!

I live now in the Philippines. The Protestant growth here is astounding, when you consider the Spanish influence from the past. The social or economic significance is minimal, but the Spirit of God is moving their hearts and minds out of the BONDAGE of that man-made cult, with many FORMER BRAINWASHED adherents worldwide, seeing the TRUTH of God's plan!

Ignorance is beautiful, isn't it, JPX?

Romans 3: 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

[JPX2011]

This verse is about arbitration in the local church between two believers. It is about the response to the arbitration by each of the two parties. It not about a “pope”.

Wrong.

Matthew 16:19: "Whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

"Binding" and "loosing" were technical rabbinical terms, which meant to "forbid" and 'permit" with reference to the interpretation of the law and, secondarily, to "condemn," "place under the ban" or "acquit."

Thus St. Peter and the popes are given the authority to determine the rules for doctrine and life by virtue of revelation and the Spirit's leading (see Jn 16:13), as well as to demand obedience from the Church. "Binding and loosing" represent the legislative and judicial powers of the papacy and the bishops (Mt 18:17-18; Jn 20:23). St. Peter, however, is the only apostle who receives these powers by name and in the singular, making him pre-eminent.[1]

[1] Armstrong, D. (1998). The Pre-Eminence of St. Peter. Retrieved from http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/50PROOFS.TXT

[ealgeone]

Or to use the Holy Spirit as cover when they reject the Eucharist

to reject the catholic version and all the requirements that go along with it....yes.

to accept the Biblical version is better where Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of Me."

To participate one must (comments in parenthesis are mine):

1) The individual must be in a “state of grace” (1 Corinthians 11:27–28). One loses the “state of grace” by committing a mortal sin. Examples of mortal sins are abortion (receiving one or participating in one), homosexual acts, sex outside of marriage, deliberate impure thoughts, etc.(catholic requirement regarding mortal sin. Catholicism teaches one can lose their salvation contrary to what the Bible teaches regarding the security of the believer in Christ.....The Bible teaches Christ has forgiven ALL of our sins...past, present and future. Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches "we have been sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."

2) The person has attended confession since his/her last mortal sin. (catholic requirement regarding attending confession...not a Biblical one as Christians can confess their sins directly to Christ Who freely forgives)

3) The communicant must believe in transubstantiation, meaning the bread is transformed into the actual flesh of Christ and the wine is transformed into the actual blood of Christ. (catholic requirement...not a Biblical one as the bread and wine are symbols of the flesh and blood Christ shed for us)

4) The person must observe the Eucharistic fast by abstaining from food and drink for at least one hour prior to communion. (catholic requirement...not a Biblical one)

5) The individual must not be under an ecclesiastical censure such as excommunication.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-Mass.html#ixzz3L4nNvylK

[JPX2011]

I live now in the Philippines. The Protestant growth here is astounding...

Whatever growth to be had there won't be for long. Seeing as how the NCCP threw its weight behind the birth control bill.

Ignorance is beautiful, isn't it, JPX?

No. It's tragic. It's tragic for the untold number of children who will be lost. Wherever protestants go, so go the children.

But, let us not spoil your expatriate activities.

[metmom]

And those big Catholic families are where again?

The biggest families I know of are Evangelical ones and homeschool ones, of which there is some overlap.

[JPX2011]

And those big Catholic families are where again?

Right here. I'm one out of seven.

[ealgeone]

Wherever protestants go, so go the children.

Yeah...just ask those wonderful catholics nancy pelosi and joe "plugs" biden....good little catholics supporting the murder of the unborn child!

and has the catholic church kicked them out? denied them communion? nope. nope.

[WVKayaker]

But, let us not spoil your expatriate activities.

I am not an expatriate here. I am a resident tourist with a wide open mission field. The Spirit of God is moving the hearts and mind of the spiritually blinded and ignorant and leading them to the truth of salvation through simple faith in Jesus Christ.

As for the NCCP, I doubt that most of them have any allegiance, nor even any knowledge of that group. It is a front for communists and community organizers (but I repeat myself!). I am sure that they are more aware of the tragic result of following some self-declared group referring to themselves a "catholic" with spurious claims unsubstantiated in the Word of God. The church at Rome was specifically targeted by Paul concerning their legalistic approach to God's grace. I am also sure that those whom I know and with whom I fellowship know and follow Christ, not a "church/social group" purporting to hold the only truth, while denying the WHOLE Truth.

I chose to come here because I am retired. I have lived a comfortable life in America, and now I lead a MORE comfortable life here. Due to the exchange rates, my retirement dollars allow me to have a nice home at the beach (all of the 7107 Islands have great beaches), enjoy high speed internet, satellite TV, digital cellphone service, and have a full time time live in housekeeper to take the household chores away from my beautiful Filipino wife. It gives us both plenty of time to enjoy life.

I am sorry that you wish to remain within a group that is truly kept ignorant of the wealth and beauty of God's economy. Instead, you include yourself in a group that only wished to amass wealth here on Earth, and supplant the Word of God with doctrines of devils!

No. It's tragic. It's tragic for the untold number of children who will be lost. Wherever protestants go, so go the children. ...

Hahahahahaaaa. Another ignorant statement from a groupie who condones and justifies the indoctrination of children into a cult based on personalities, not God. Jesus told grown men and women to be baptized, not to sprinkle water on children!

Matthew 19: 28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

[metmom]

Age has a lot to do with it.

Older people are more likely to have come from bigger families.

The families I’m familiar with that have four or more children are Evangelicals and homeschoolers.

Even the most faithful practicing Catholics I know have at the most three kids these days.

So where are the current big Catholic families because I see fewer of them than I do Evangelical ones?

[JPX2011]

Yeah...just ask those wonderful catholics nancy pelosi and joe "plugs" biden....good little catholics supporting the murder of the unborn child!

Don't worry. They'll get theirs. Their sin is greater. They know better.

and has the catholic church kicked them out?

They kicked themselves out.

denied them communion? nope. nope.

What do you care about communion? According to your #423 it's symbolic. Can a symbol be harmed? It's no harm no foul. The cognitive dissonance is amazing. Deny the Eucharist for one reason, accept it for another.

[ealgeone]

Do this in remembrance of me, Jesus said. I don't deny the Lord's Supper. I deny the catholic perversion of the Lord's Supper.

I follow the Biblical model established by Christ....not the man-made catholic version.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Matthew 16 has nothing to do with the context of the verse we are discussing. Anyone objective can read the context and see it is discussing disputes between two believers when their local church acts as arbiter.

[Heart-Rest]

"If they covered it up! (Which is what Rome did for the rapists, and that has ALWAYS been my point)"

=============================================================

With just a very small percentage of priests even being credibly accused of abuse, and a smaller number still of bishops being credibly accused of not taking proper action to stop them and just shuffling abusive priests around, it is disingenous to assert that the whole Church is responsible for that.    Those few abusers did their best to cover all their tracks.    To paint the whole Church with that deceptive, dishonest, broad brush, is like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson saying all white people are responsible for what one white person does to one black person.    That is obviously false, and comes from the father of all falsehoods.

It would be like blaming you Gamecock (and all other Protestants) for what these Calvinist Protestants did.   (See also this account.)

"The Church" did not perform that abuse, and "the Church" did not cover up that abuse.    Individual human beings did those things, and they are responsible for their actions, and to blame others who had nothing to do with either of those evil things (the vast majority of members of God's Church) is to assert an insidious falsehood.

[Heart-Rest]

Sorry to see you go.    Most translations use the phrase “You shall not bear false witness” or something similar.

Just to clarify (in the interest of the fullness of the truth), some of the "Ten Commandments" were reiterated with different wording in a number of other Biblical locations, and here is one of them:

---

"Do not lie."    Leviticus 19:11 (NIV)     (Link)

---

(Numerous other translations have similar wording, as this link will show.)

[Elsie]

(Which I am invoking in response to your France/Mormon argument)

In a similar manner; many seem to think that the speed limit laws in Jersualem apply to the drivers in America; too.

WHAT!?

Some would say???

That's just CRAZY!

Yet many want to force others to follow OTHER laws, given to the JEWS.

[Elsie]

Yet many want to force others to follow OTHER laws, given to the JEWS.

Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are going the legal speed limit, or under, according to the signs posted along the Via Dolorosa, you WILL be ticketed!"

[Elsie]

The Necessity of Being Catholic

versus

The UN-necessity of Being Catholic

---

Mark Chapter 9:35-41

 

And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,

Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.

And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

For he that is not against us is on our part.

For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

[Elsie]

And His Church.

And His mom...

[Elsie]

Conflating the material with the spiritual and viewing it all through the prism of power and control.

This is my body...

[Elsie]

There is absolutely NOTHING in the Bible that suggests Christians are subject to the pope.

There is absolutely NOTHING posted on FR that suggests Catholics are subject to the pope; either.