Posted on 12/03/2014 10:23:22 AM PST by NKP_Vet
In a new video, megachurch leader and author Rick Warren is calling for Christians to unite with Roman Catholics and “Pope Francis,” who Warren recently referred to as the “Holy Father”—a move that is raising concerns among Christians nationwide and is resulting in calls for Warren to repent.
Warren made the comments following his visit to the Vatican last month, where he spoke at an interfaith conference on the “Complementarity of Man and Woman.”
“We have far more in common than what divides us,” he said in the two-minute video released by the Catholic News Service on Wednesday, described as being an outline for “an ecumenical vision for Catholics and Protestants to work together to defend the sanctity of life, sex and marriage.”
“They would all say, ‘We believe in the Trinity; we believe in the Bible; we believe in the resurrection; we believe in salvation through Jesus Christ,” Warren asserted, speaking of the various denominations within Christianity, of which he included Roman Catholicism. “These are the big issues.”
The author of the bestselling book “The Purpose Driven Life” then sought to defend Catholics from those who take issue with the practice of seeking the intercession of Mary and the various deceased persons that have been sainted by the Vatican.
“Sometimes protestants think that Catholics worship Mary like she’s another god, but that’s not exactly Catholic doctrine,” Warren contended. “People say, ‘What are the saints all about? Why are you praying to the saints?’ And when you understand what they mean by what they’re saying, there’s a whole lot more commonality [that we have with Roman Catholics].”
“There’s still real differences—no doubt about that,” Warren stated. “But the most important thing is, if you love Jesus, we’re on the same team.”
He closed by speaking of his belief that Christians and Catholics serve as co-laborers for the cause of defending life and family.
“When it comes to the family, we are co-workers in the field in this for the protection of the sanctity of life, the sanctity of sex and the sanctity of marriage,” Warren said. “So, there’s a great commonality and there’s no division on any of those three.”
But Warren’s comments have raised concern from Christian leaders nationwide, who are now calling the Saddleback leader to repentance. Matt Slick of the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (CARM) repudiated each of Warren’s points.
“Sure, there are Catholics who love the real Christ, the one who died on the cross for our sins. That is not the problem,” he said. “The problem is the Roman Catholic Church’s false teachings concerning Mary and salvation.”
“Rick Warren says both the Catholics and the Protestants believe in the Bible. But, there is a significant difference between the Bible of the Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church, which has added seven books,” Slick wrote. “[T]here are numerous problems in the apocryphal books, such as the teaching of salvation by works [and] the offering of money for the sins of the dead.”
“Warren implies that both Protestants and Catholics have the same view of salvation,” he continued. “Though it’s technically correct to say that Catholics believe in salvation through Jesus Christ, they reject justification by faith alone in Christ alone. Instead, it teaches that good works of various kinds are necessary for salvation.”
The Christian apologist then pointed to several Roman Catholic teachings on Mary, mainly from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), such as that Mary “by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation” and that “[b]y asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All-Holy One.”
“Rick Warren has not only failed to recognize the problems in these serious areas, but he has lent his credibility as a Protestant pastor in support of the Roman Catholic Church,” Slick wrote. “This should never be done by any Protestant pastor who takes the Bible seriously. I must conclude that Mr. Warren does not take the word of God seriously and/or he does not understand the damnable teachings of Roman Catholicism regarding salvation.”
“Rick Warren needs to repent,” he said.
You must have one of those high caflutin fancy spell checks er somthin. Mine don’t look at the context and pick the best word to apply. :-)
Same here. I have a greater appreciation for my dad's warning to stay away from those Catholic girls.
Does it even matter? It sure won't stop the protestant from insisting that all Catholics share in the collective guilt. And I thought that was only the domain of liberals. After all, as conservatives we deny the notion of white guilt on its face. But its not surprising. Cognitive dissonance is mandatory in the protestant contingent.
‘note the word WITHIN in my response....within means that they were indeed members....some fairly high ranking....sadly’
Agree w you that some were ‘fairly’ high ranking members. Members, in fact, entrusted with authority, acting in their official capacities as representatives of the church. In that position they made decisions, again and again, that directly caused ‘little ones who believed in Him to stumble’ [Jesus had something to say about this]. The damning part is that they continued to do so until external pressures forced a change.
I.e.: it was not the suffering/stumbling of the small believers that brought change, but external forces. That is the really sad part.
I don't think all Catholics share in the guilt. Following morally corrupt leadership on the other hand is an entirely different subject.
**I just stated that I was leaving this thread**
And yet you are still here. That is what is so vexing.
The ‘fool’ comment may have something to do with it. Consider Matt. 5:22:
“But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raqa,’ will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna.”
Well, based on past experience, when someone has a hissy fit and quits FR, they come back. When a poster says they are leaving a thread it lasts for about 3 minutes.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Lord Jesus Christ: “But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” Matthew 5:22 (KJV)
Tough words but true and the Scripture that precedes and follows gives the context. Best to avoid even thinking that word. If it keeps popping into one’s mind, we know that it is not of God and needs dealing with before our offering of sacrifices of praise to God.
Sometimes, I’ve tried to justify my sinning by thinking “He’s not my brother in any sense of the word.” Then Jesus’ answer regarding who is my neighbor comes to mind and I begin to smarten up; He is warning against all forms of murder and the hate that preceeds all forms of murder, among many other things.
If ANYBODY is to be benefited from these labored FR threads, we Christians need to consider one another more and in a more peaceable manner than we have. We MUST show love for one another if we are to heap coals on the heads of our antagonists who do not know love as we do.
1 John 4:7-10 King James Version (KJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
There are distinct differences in beliefs by Catholics and by non-RCC Christians that aren’t going away until individuals are persuaded and convinced of the Truth which is the Good News of Jesus Christ and what He has done for whosoever believes in Him. AND WONDERFULLY SO, He finished His work for OUR benefit while WE were still living in sin. That’s unsurpassed love of the greatest possible magnitude.
That is a good post. The 1 John vss have been made into a chorus, and it was running through my mind all day yesterday. Such a blessing to see it quoted today!
Here is another passage that may enhance our discussions, from Philippians, chapter 2 vss 3-4:
“3 Do nothing out of selfishness or out of vainglory; rather, humbly regard others as more important than yourselves, 4 each looking out not for his own interests, but [also] everyone for those of others.”
Mid-30s... Protestant father, Catholic mother...
In 24 years of exposure to the RCC I have never once heard it taught that protestants are going to hell; however, when I attended protestant services growing up, I was taught that Catholics were going to hell.
Which examples the interpretive nature of much RC teaching. For if you lived in much earlier times then you would be under a church that taught one must submit to the pope and remain in the bosom of the church to be saved, contrary to how V2 usually understood.
Even though provision is made for "invincible ignorance," the former historical medieval position would dam most every literate Prot today if invincible ignorance means one knows of the elitist claim of Rome but find it unwarranted, which it is .
• Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam:
• Pius 9, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore: “Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff..” - http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9quanto.htm
And which elitist bombastic assertions are interpreted by V2 to mean,
‘• Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam:
“We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”’
I am not a Catholic, and have never been a Catholic. So somebody needs to explain this to me. The first quote is ex cathedra. I know what that means. The last three quotes, re: Vatican II, set the top one aside. [I get that they assert we are saved via an imperfect communion, not recognized by us, to the Catholic Church. However, we are not subject to the Roman Pontiff. So whatever this imperfect communion is, it falls short of subjecting us to the Pope.] So how does the Catholic Church justify setting aside an ex cathedra pronunciation?
It would seem Eugene IV fits the T-RC positions on FR.
A very logical question. One with which many Roman Catholics here on FR seem to side step or avoid. Recommend posing the question to an RC poster and wait for the answer.
I should have thanked Daniel for posting that info. It was very interesting.
I post too rarely on the RF to want to put any particular Catholic on the spot. Perhaps one will be good enough to volunteer to explain that conundrum. But thank you for the suggestion. I am sincerely curious about this issue, and I hope that someone will respond.
not bad for a doctrine that “never changes”!
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