Posted on 11/29/2014 2:59:15 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
I recently had a few young men looking to join the Catholic Church. Their math teacher told them that if they join the Catholic Church, they'll go to Hell.
Interesting
Sacrament:
a : a Christian rite (as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
That's what we've been saying all along...It's a spiritual operation, symbolic of a physical one...
>> “ do you think it is possible that Satan has been preparing an anti Christ for every generation since the first coming?” <<
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Not at all!
The rise of Antichrist will be triggered by Satan’s being cast out of the presence of the Father, to Earth.
This occurs in the middle of the 70th week at the Jewish observance “Purim.” He will be the new Haman (son of Hammedatha the Agagite, Esther ch 3).
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Just telling you what they told us. I was in third grade.
Don’t get your panties in a bunch.
Nothing you have quoted is negated in the Catholic Church’s understanding of the Eucharist as a sacrament.
The Eucharist IS a sign. The Catholic belief is that the Eucharist differs from the other sacraments in that it is a real thing as well as a sign. St. Thomas Aquinas says that the body and blood of the Lord are really present in the sacrament—but that they are present IN THE MANNER OF A SYMBOL. That is not the same as being a “mere” symbol.
One way to make this a little clearer is to note that when the Host is broken into pieces, the whole Christ is present in each of the resulting pieces, precisely as each piece would be a symbol of Christ if the original whole Host had been a symbol.
Some careless people try to express the reality of the Real Presence by saying that Christ is “physically present” in the Eucharist. That is precisely what he is not. If Christ were physically present in the Eucharist, he would be about 5’10”, weigh about 180 lbs., etc., etc., and he would be visible to our eyes.
The “Real Presence” means that Christ is present in an objective way, independent of our minds. A mere symbol is nothing without a mind to interpret it, actively drawing some meaning from it. The presence of Christ in the Eucharist is real, even if the tabernacle is locked for 1000 years, and no one even knows it is there.
This insistence on the “real presence” in the Eucharist, and that the bread and wine cease to exist at the consecration, being changed into the body and blood of the Lord, is the Church’s way of being faithful to the Lord’s command that we are to eat his body and drink his blood.
There was no mass, no priesthood, no pope.... they understood
Did you perceive my comments as some kind of attack on YOU?
I just thought the condemnation of MAD was funny. I’m sure those who condemned it never knew anything about it except that kids read it.
No Mass? You ever read the gospels?
No Mass? You ever read the Gospels? The Epistles? The Apostolic Fathers? The sub-Apostolic Fathers?
Again, all you are citing is the OT.
What about the NT, the Apostolic Fathers, and the sub-Apostolic Fathers?
There, you find deacons, priests, bishops, and the Mass.
If these things were all gross distortions of the teaching of Jesus, then his promise to remain with the Church and preserve the Church from error was shot to hell in two generations.
Oh really?
You could not have possibly read the Scripture references then because you clearly missed this passage.....
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
The HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF reiterated the command against consuming blood.
Show us where in the NT the word *mass* is found.
Show us where the procedure for performing the mass is found.
Show us where priests are given to the church to perform sacrifices for believers.
If these things were all gross distortions of the teaching of Jesus, then his promise to remain with the Church and preserve the Church from error was shot to hell in two generations.
Show us where Jesus promised to preserve local assemblies from error. And show us where the church, those local assemblies, is the source of truth.
Error was starting to creep into the church from the very get go. Paul wrote plenty about it. It was happening while he was still alive.
So this claim of the RCC that it's free from error because Jesus promised to keep it that way is merely an attempt to put it's claims to inerrancy beyond dispute, no different than any shyster televangelist who claims that you can't argue with him because he claims God told him something and that if you disagree with him, you are disagreeing with God.
Bogus claims on both parts.
The HOLY SPIRIT is who guides people into truth, the truth found in SCRIPTURE that he breathed out, not the kind of self-proclaimed *truth* that the Catholic church tries to pass off in its attempts at power grabs.
Wonderful reference.
Another wonderful source.
If this prohibition on the drinking of blood prohibits the drinking of Christ's blood, then why does St. John (some decades later) put into the mouth of Jesus the command to drink his blood?
Jesus' death did not create a new passover...There is no new passover...Jesus was the fulfillment of the passover...
All of those passover feasts in the O.T. were symbolic of that first passover...Just as the Lord's Supper is symbolic of the fulfillment of that passover...
The N.T. says to break the bread...Why??? To participate in the torment of Jesus??? Of course not...It is to remember how his body was broken...It is so that we will never forget his sacrifice on the cross...
If the first Mass wasn't a sacrifice, Calvary was only an execution, Hahn says...And you believe that because Hahn said it??? I certainly don't...That is pure, fable...
And then Hahn goes on to say that the flesh and blood in your Mass is the flesh and blood of the resurrected Jesus...
Did Jesus get some new blood after his body was drained of blood??? You sure Jesus had blood after he was resurrected??? Why didn't blood run all over the floor when Thomas stuck his hand inside Jesus' body???
1Co_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
What's funny to me is that Hahn didn't believe the bible as a Protestant and now you've got him teaching all the Catholics, the bible...
Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
God makes a liar out of Hahn...It is Jesus' shed blood that gives us redemption, NOT new blood that Hahn claims Jesus was filled up with...
For the same reason God told Jeremiah to eat a book...It is not just symbolic, it is spiritual...
“Concerning this type of interdenominational nonsense, I’d like to politely request that folks knock it off. Attack me if you must, but leave each other alone. Sheesh!”
Uh, were a bunch of mean old Christians...interdenominational nonsense is our bag and just try prying it from our cold, dead hands!
On a serious note, since you’re a Buddhist it would be nice if you minded your own affairs re: Scripture. That’s family business.
You make lots of assertions.
You expect to be taken seriously when you make fun of Jesus like that?
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