Posted on 11/28/2014 9:44:39 PM PST by Steelfish
The Early Church Fathers
The Early Church Fathers were the disciples of the 12 apostles, the disciples of the disciples of the 12 apostles, the disciples of the disciples of the disciples of the 12 apostles, etc. In short they were the Christian leaders who took charge of the Church following the death of the 12 apostles.
They were not only taught by the 12 apostles, they were also first-hand witnesses to the creation of the Church worldwide. Most, if not all, were martyred by being crucified, beheaded, fed to the lions at the Roman Coliseum, boiled in oil, or skinned alive. They were the ones empowered by the Holy Spirit (John 16:13 and 1 John 4:6), and who personally handed on the oral teaching of Jesus Christ, before the New Testament canon was created by the Catholic Church in the late 4th century, at the councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage.
One of the great early ones, St. Clement, is actually mentioned in the bible in Philippians 4:3. None of these early Church Fathers just stood up and started preaching on his own. They followed the Biblical model in Acts of “being sent” (Romans 10:15). Who sent them? Jesus sent the 12 apostles (“as the Father sent me, so I send you”). The 12 apostles then laid hands on others and sent them (Acts 6:6).
This apostolic tradition has been followed for 2000 years by the Catholic Church, who continuously lays hands on new disciples in every generation since Jesus walked the earth, and then sends them to the four corners of the earth to preach the good news of Jesus Christ, to forgive sins in His Name, and to bring Jesus in the Eucharist to us all. We, the members of the 21rst Century, owe these early Church Fathers a lot of gratitude, because they died horrible deaths in order to preserve and to hand on the Word of God to us today.
A lot of Protestants ignore these early Christian leaders, preferring instead to believe that the history of Christianity began with Jesus and the 12 apostles, and then somehow skipped over 15 centuries to Martin Luther. That would be like saying that the history of the United States began with George Washington in 1776, and then skipped over to Franklin Roosevelt in 1932. For some reason, a lot of Protestants will refuse to read any of the writings of the early Church Fathers, proudly proclaiming to everyone that “Those writings are not in my Bible!”
But they will read the writings of Martin Luther, Billy Graham, and Max Lucado, even though those aren’t in the Bible either! They will even read and believe the heretical "Left Behind" books of LaHeye and Jenkins (there is no "secret" rapture of believers mentioned anywhere in the bible. When it happens, according to the bible, there will be trumpet blasts, and every eye will see Jesus). The writings of the early Church Fathers elucidate what is taught in the Bible, so that it’s no mystery whether or not the Eucharist is the actual body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ, whether or not Mary is the new Eve, or whether or not there is a purgatory.
After all, the early Church Fathers were taught by the 12 apostles, handed on the faith to the next generation, and were then martyred for their actions! Why someone would trust more in the writings of people coming along 15 centuries later over their writings is very strange indeed.
Some of the greatest early Church Fathers are mentioned below. To read about them, just click on their name.
St. Polycarp
St. Iraneaus
St. Justin Martyr
St. Ambrose
St. Ignatius of Antioch
St. Cyril of Jerusalem
St. Athanasius
St. Clement of Rome
St. Augustine
St. Jerome
To read about what they thought about the following issues, click on each one of the topics below.
Purgatory
Homosexuality
Contraception
Old Testament Canon
Good Works
The Catholic Church
The Pope
The Eucharist
Apostolic Succession and Tradition
The Blessed Virgin Mary
The Mass
Divorce
Against Heresy
Unity of the Church
Infant Baptism
Degrees of Sin
Abortion
Some great writings of these early Church Fathers are below:
The First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians
The Epistle of Polycarp to the Phillipians
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians
The Martyrdom of Ignatius
The First Apology of Justin Martyr
Iranaeus Against Heresies
Confessions of St. Augustine
A Complete Index of the Early Church Fathers' Writings
Jimmy Akin's New Blog on the Early Church Fathers
So don't get trapped in the Protestant philosophy that actually says that if it isn't in the Bible, then it can't possibly be true. If that were truly the case, then none of Martin Luther's writings can be seen as true, because they aren't in the Bible either! Take the time to read what our Catholic martyred ancestors had to say. After all, we are all united through time and space in the Eucharist. St. John says in his gospel that if we eat the body of Christ and drink His blood, then Christ abides in us, and we in Him! And because we are all united in Christ, we are all united with each other.
And once non-Catholic Christians start to read these writings of the early Church Fathers, they will soon discover that there were NO Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Mormons, Episcopaleans, etc., anywhere in the Early Church. Those traditions of men were all started centuries later, based on what people thought Jesus' Church was all about, rather than on what it actually was.
And if they were all in 100% agreement you might have a case. But they’re not. They’re all over the board on this, Peter being the first pope and all the other things discussed on this board. The only consistent thing about the ECFs is their inconsistency.
In Luke 2:7....And she gave birth to her first born son....
Luke 2: 22-23
22 And when the days of her purification according to the Law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord ;)
If first born means others have to follow why would they present him to god before they could possibly know if there were going to be others?
Even so I still can not see that it plainly tells us either way.
Your post 82. Again the Greek and biblical context clears this up. Jesus was the first born son of Mary. He did have other brothers. Paul notes this in Galatians 1:19 when he says he met James....the Lord’s brother. I’m not sure how it could be any clearer.
Dear Sister in Christ
I am glad that you have been on a personal journey with our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for 25 years. When Jesus was asked about the men his disciples caught driving out demons in His name, He did not rebuke the men but instead told His disciples, who is not against us is with us.
It seems to me that you have traded the hundreds of years of carefully scrutinized doctrines of the One, True, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church for your own personal concoction which has no doubt been informed by other men.
It is my sincere prayer that you and I will come to know, understand and reject the sins that punish our Dear Lord and Savoir and together rejoice with Him on the eighth day.
I am wondering, where the tribe of Judah got the “J” from if it hadn’t been invented yet?
From RSV:
21 And at the end of eight days, when he was circumcised, he was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
22 And when the time came for their purification according to the law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord
23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord, "Every male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord")
24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, "a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons."
25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he should not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
27 And inspired by the Spirit he came into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the law, 28 he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said,
29 "Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word;
30 for mine eyes have seen thy salvation
31 which thou hast prepared in the presence of all peoples,
32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to thy people Israel."
33 And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him;
34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, "Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is spoken against
35 (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed."
36 And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phan'u-el, of the tribe of Asher; she was of a great age, having lived with her husband seven years from her virginity,
37 and as a widow till she was eighty-four. She did not depart from the temple, worshiping with fasting and prayer night and day.
38 And coming up at that very hour she gave thanks to God, and spoke of him to all who were looking for the redemption of Jerusalem.
39 And when they had performed everything according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city, Nazareth.
40 And the child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom; and the favor of God was upon him.
Huh? Hebrew has no letter "J" to this day nor does any dialect of it, and neither does Greek. You do realize that they don't even use the same alphabet, don't you?
“That’s because in the protestant brain the early Church fathers were not Catholic.”
That’s an interesting observation.
I think it has some truth in it, and is probably historically valid.
You make a good point.
“In the protestant mind the Catholic Church is given credit for nothing.”
This is just another empty straw man attack.
BRAVA LadyL! Your work on this thread is outstanding!
But there is a correction in this one point: Jews are the House of Judah, not only the tribe of Judah. The House of Judah consisted of three tribes: Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, albeit that in the Assyrian Diaspora, half of Benjamin and Levi were also captured and went away with the rest.
This is why Paul rightly calls himself a Jew when he is of the tribe of Benjamin.
Wow, you missed the entire point, whether there was or was not a letter "J" was not even in dispute besides I didn't ask you, I asked Lady so you can take it up with her.
when he says he met James....the Lord’s brother. I’m not sure how it could be any clearer.
More than one meaning for brothers or brethren.
If it proves it to you I have no argument but I do not believe it is enough to build doctrine on.
You have forgotten the testimonies of two very important witnesses, Simeon and Anna at the Presentation in the Temple!
In Genesis 48:17 when Jacob/Israel blesses and adopts Joseph's two half breed sons as his and says they will be called Israel, Jacob says to Ephraim When Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand on Ephraim’s head, it displeased him; and he grasped his father’s hand to remove it from Ephraim’s head to Manasseh’s head. 18 Joseph said to his father, “Not so, my father, for this one is the firstborn. Place your right hand on his head.” 19 But his father refused and said, “I know, my son, I know; he also will become a people and he also will be great. However, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his [s]descendants shall become a [t]multitude of nations.”
In the Hebrew language “multitude of nations” is also melo goyim or the fullness of the Gentiles...so I guess that my tribe might be Ephraim although that could be subject to change. There are twelve gates going into the New Jerusalem. Each gate has a name of one of the tribes over it...THERE IS NO CHURCH GATE! Which gate will you walk in.
Your post 90....context is everything. Ditch the catholic propaganda and read the Word.
Your post 90....context is everything.
No. Context is everything in understanding the Word. If not you’re making stuff up as catholicism does regarding this, and other issues.
No. Context is everything in understanding the Word. If not you’re making stuff up as catholicism does regarding this, and other issues.
15 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
What an odd expression. I'm imagining myself in Germany.
From your comments I deduce you are a Gentile and associated with one of the Anglo-Israelism sects/cults which are clearly derived from Protestantism.
Have they taught you the three tithes and persuaded you to donate your assets to the tax deductible organization. ?
You can escape the cult when you are willing. The church which you disdain is the body of Messiah. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to usward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Apparently you know the Word. I pray you find the Truth.
Apparently you know the Word. I pray you find the Truth.
That i am sure you know as well as I do so I don`t think I need to preach on it.
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