Posted on 10/31/2014 7:35:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
Apparently, "Teen Mom" star/stripper Farrah Abraham's recent trip to Houston's Lakewood Church had an impact.
The reality star turned porn star was spotted in a Texas airport this week reading a copy of Lakewood pastor Joel Osteen's bestsellilng book "You Can, You Will."
(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...
bump
Jesus is not a genie in a bottle or a leprechaun
You are saying that he doesn't help them find the path to the One who Saves?
Your gifts of perception and discernment are far beyond my basic skills.
We have a conundrum here, because acceptance of love is the only way... let me repeat, the ONLY way, delivery from sin can occur. Nope, a lifetime of self effort, of religious words and deeds, would not avail one iota.
A theology that does not acknowledge that reconciliation and sin stand at odds, is incorrect. However if the two get seriously into battle, sin will yield.
It is a delicate topic and hard to treat, because humanity’s fallen minds will err to one side or the other. In this case, there is precious little guidance from the Holy Spirit to be seen in the debate. It becomes “damn them to hell” vs. “we don’t even need to think about it now.” Christendom itself has become weak. We are vain to enter into battles about which is worse. Both are distanced from God.
But God has a way of exposing people to various aspects of the truth over their lives so that the glory ends up going to Him and not some proud human teacher, whoever that teacher might be.
God is not a sugar daddy, and one doesn’t come to Jesus for salvation without first knowing they need a SAVIOR.
If you’re coming to Jesus for health, wealth, and prosperity, to help you fix up your life so you can live your best life now, you’re missing the boat.
Jesus didn’t die to make good people better and give them a good life.
He died to save us from the penalty of sin, which is death.
He did it all and does it all. There is NOTHING we can do to improve ourselves. We have no power in ourselves to fix ourselves, no matter how positive we think or how much we *believe* for it.
We’re not called to fix ourselves up with God’s help, but to die to self and be transformed and conformed to the image of Christ.
Just because Osteen makes people feel good, doesn’t mean he’s right.
It is God operating through anyone speaking of the gospel who leads them to, or along, this path of salvation.
The best thing we can do if we would share the gospel is to find God’s sweet spot in it for the occasion. That will vary from occasion to occasion but will never be incorrect theology. It will not be Ph.D. complete but that does not matter.
Halloween has just passed. I think this is a “holiday” of much truth. Not that the fantasy ghosts, witches, and goblins have any real existence, but that it figuratively illustrates the ugly state in which humanity now exists, even the “best” of all of us. It is fitting that it should resolve in All Saints Day.
Doesn’t mean he is all wrong either.
If not a “sugar daddy” neither is he a sour lemon at your beck and call to shove in the faces of those you dislike.
So what if he *points people to Jesus*?
Jesus isn’t going to do what people need for them (get saved) if they don’t come to Him for that.
Joel Osteen Doesn’t Want Anti-Gay Stance To Define His Ministry. He says "but I don’t really focus on a lot of those things, I try to stay in my lane of what I feel called to do. [Gay marriage] does come up in interviews and things, but that’s not my core message.”
His core message? Does he really think he is not called to preach against homosexuality?
Acts 20, 26Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all, 27for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. 28Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God,d which he obtained with his own blood.e 29I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish every one with tears.Thankfully Paul preached the while counsel of God. According to Scriptur if someone, like Osteen doesn't, he has blood on his hands.
Elsewhere Osteen has said that gays can go to Heaven, which the certainly may. But Osteen once again left out repentance and the tapping into the grace offered by the atoning death and resurrection of Jesus.
And what did he say in another interview?
"I believe that scripture says that it's a sin but I always follow that up by saying you know what, we're not against anybody," Osteen said to Larry King. "There's a lot of things Larry that I don't understand - so I just don't want to preach on it, preach about it."
What is there to understand. Scripture teaches homosexuality is a sin. He is again dodging the question.
Dodging it just like he did here. This time it was so egregious that it drew the attention of Al Mohler, former president of the Southern Baptist Convention, who opined
“established the perfect platform for Osteen to respond with the gospel of Jesus Christ,” Osteen “did not.”“Viewers of CNN saw a display of confusion, evasion, and equivocation coming from one presented as a Christian pastor,” charged Mohler. “What they were really seeing is the total theological bankruptcy of the word of faith movement and the gospel of positive thinking.
“Osteen cannot, or at least will not, speak even the simplest word of biblical conviction. He states his intention to stay in his ‘lane’ of glib affirmation.”
And actions speak louder than words. Don't forget he prayed at the ingratiation ceremony Houston's gay mayor Annise Parker. I'm sure he prayed a Christ centered prayer there. Oh. Wait! He didn't.
So who is Houston mayor Annise Parker? You may have seen that she recently went after 5 Houston pastors who, like Paul, preach the whole counsel of God. Did she go after her buddy Osteen? No. Did he, as one of the most "influential pastors in America" come to there defense? No.
He is, like others have said a snake oil salesman and not a very good one at that.
Every thing I have, every lesson I've learned, along with the ability to learn, has come from my Creator.
I cannot claim credit for a blessed thing, only the trouble my freewill has lead to is mine.
Trouble which God then got me out of, all the while using it to teach me the truth of His Laws that this world runs on and the Love that only can come from the Holy Trinity.
He is the Source.
Funny, but since getting off the hate wagon and actually listening to Osteen's sermons, I hear him confirm what I am doing my best to tell you.
Obviously, YMMV.
I do believe that Satan will trip him up if he takes his eyes off the Father and looks to the left or to the right instead. Then, we would see a Jim and Tammy Faye/PTL style downfall.
I pray that doesn't happen. What are you praying for?
I appreciate how you've explained the opinions you've come to.
Loving the sinner while hating the sin can be quite a challenge, especially regarding all things sex and now homosexuality.
I know how much I struggle with that love/hate challenge with some in my world and I'm just me with a small circle of influence, not a pastor nor Pope.
Jesus is the only one I can think of who got that one right and His is often a difficult example to follow unless you're fully tuned in to the God Channel.
Otoh, Satan has enjoyed quite a lot of success with it and it may be what trips Osteen up and leads to his downfall, as so often happens with those in the spotlight.
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
Likely it is Satan protecting his own and God is the one who exposes the sin and *let's them get tripped up*.
CS Lewis in his book, Screwtape Letters, points out, and I believe correctly, that Satan would not care one iota if we lived a comfortable, safe life, where we never see our need for God and never come to Him fro salvation. Allowing a person happy, comfortable life to get him into hell for eternity would be a small price to pay for the enemy. Sure, he'd rather destroy us, but I do believe that his ultimate goal is to get people damned and whatever it takes, even if it's prosperity, works for him.
So since you are defending Osteen, do you also adhere to the prosperity gospel he preaches?
Do you think this is your best life now? Or that you can even have it?
Or did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached God's gospel to you free of charge? I robbed other churches by accepting support from them in order to serve you. And when I was with you and was in need, I did not burden anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied my need. So I refrained and will refrain from burdening you in any way. As the truth of Christ is in me, this boasting of mine will not be silenced in the regions of Achaia. And why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do!
And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
Does Osteen preach the same gospel that Paul preached?
You know something, I don't trust a single one of those televangelists, or TV preachers.
Is how they live in line with Paul's teaching about leadership in the church? Is what they promise what GOD promises us in Scripture?
Why do they live opulent, self-indulgent lifestyles off the donations of people who don't live like that?
That health, wealth, and prosperity teaching is NOT the gospel of salvation. It's not going to get people saved, and trying to use God to cater to the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not going to result in salvation.
Satan never uses all out lies, because that's too obvious.
He always mixes just enough truth with them to confuse people and lead them astray.
The first part seems true, but I can't see well enough to confirm or deny. However, the last part seems closer to describing my experience and observations.
So since you are defending Osteen, do you also adhere to the prosperity gospel he preaches?
Your words, not mine. I do not see myself as defending him. He doesn't need defending and certainly not by me. I was on the hate wagon and got off. It's better for me this way. YMMV
What I told you in my response to you is how I understand the source of "prosperity" and I do not limit my definition to monetary wealth/success. Doing so seems result from a sort of envy and is not one of my issues. I see money as a tool, nothing more, but I have learned the truth of what The Notorious B.I.G once said, "Mo' money, mo' problems."
Do you think this is your best life now? Or that you can even have it?
That sounds like Warren? I read as far as I could in his book and could read no more and tossed it.
This is my life and, yes, it's the best one I have. It was given to me by my Father and for it and everything in it, I am grateful.
Fwiw, I think Job is cool and think of him with regard to prosperity.
Here is my defense of Joel Osteen in it's entirety:
I think Joel Osteen's messages are good for helping me tune my inner receiver to the God Channel.
I suspect you'll have an issue or few with this material, I know I've had some, but in reading it so far, I've found a lot to help me see better and from a better perspective, as with this about The Ten Commandments.
When I say I worry about a few here on these threads or say that I worry about our country and the insanity that has so many of US by the short hairs and giving them a twist, you can believe me if you want to. I'm not lying.
What’s that?
Someone who thinks they have a *word* from God and everyone needs to hear it?
It’s the typical kind of gobblty gook that some FReepers post on the RF, and claim is a *word* from God.
Who knows what she’s hearing from.
We have Scripture. God speaks to us through that and does not need to add anything to it.
What is it, you ask? I suggest you read for yourself to find that answer, then judge it as you will.
As for me, I have some doubts from time to time, but after having read the messages through to 1998 and am still reading, I tend to believe it is exactly what it says it is.
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