Pope Goes The Weasel [Vanity]

mountainmanna.com ^ | October 30, 2014 | Pastor

[Keli Kilohana]

To The Editor

The Pope has the "That's-Not-What-He-Meant" Czardinal running his slippers off! In the pope's desperation to be relevant, Francis used words about Creation that will hurt Christians for a long time. However. while media outlets concentrate on Francis saying that God is not a magician, I grieve that a pope would dare to say that God is not divine. How can anyone support a pope—or church—that says that God is not divine?

The church’s role as arbiter of so-called scientific thought seems so important to Francis that he is willing to sacrifice the divinity of our Creator in order to glamorize the secular elements of man. Please note similar off the wall comments by Francis on atheism, the economy and homosexuality. The pope proves that when anyone seeks in such a manner to be relevant and open-minded, his or her brain falls out and he or she declares his or her faith is a fraud. If evolution is compatible with creation, then Adam's and Eve's parents were non-human apes. Francis, if we evolved from apes and monkeys, why are there still apes and monkeys?

The assertion from a pope that God is neither divine nor omnipotent is startling. If that assertion is true, then obviously the miracle of the Virgin Birth is also a myth. But what is perhaps most startling to me is that such an admission would be met with blasé acceptance by the Christian world.

It seems the pope is no magician either. His infallibility is a myth.

Pastor Terry K. Hagedorn
Calvary Baptist Church
PO Box 282 Reedsville, WV
Ph. 304-864-3870
MOUNTAIN MANNA, 96.7 FM, Sundays 9:30am
http://mountainmanna.com
"Pointing Mountaineers to Mount Calvary."

[Syncro]

Finally, as a Baptist pastor, what does he care what the Pope says?

All non Catholics should care what the pope says.

After all, it is decreed by Catholic authorities that ALL Christians must accept their pope as the authority in their lives.

In September 1995, Pope John Paul II issued a statement claiming that recognition of the primacy of the Pope is essential for unity. An article in a 1995 Southern Cross read, “Pope: For unity, all churches must accept papal authority.”

For the Catholic Church, this unity does not only apply to the Reformation churches, but includes all the people of the world

Biblically aware born again Christians flatly reject the Catholic denomination's attempt to force them/us to be a part of their belief system.

And on the contrary, ALL churches...and all people...MUST accept the authority of Jesus. Over ANY man.

Having a personal relationship with Jesus trumps big time being a member of a religion such as Catholicism.

[Syncro]

Why does any non Catholic care?

Your answer is in my post #41

41

If the Catholic authorities are trying to force everyone in the world to accept the authority of the pope, it needs to be countered.

Christians accept the authority of Jesus.

And He did NOT give Catholicism the right to dictate that we must accept the authority of your pope.

[Syncro]

And Pastor Terry you will burn in hell for calling Jesus a liar when he said “if you don’t my blood and drink my blood my blood you have no life in you”. Amen.

And what happens to someone who misquotes Jesus?

Example:

"if you don’t my blood and drink my blood my blood you have no life in you"

Burn in hell with the author of this thread?

[Rashputin]

"Maybe we could consult some older and better manuscripts of what he said./ sarc"

Or we could just throw out the things that contradict our preconceptions and justify doing so because a mythical group of Anti-Christ Jews who we pretend had authority over such things in the year 100 didn't consider those parts we throw out to be inspired.

[NKP_Vet]

And Pastor Terry Bob you will burn in hell for calling Jesus a liar when he said “Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you”. John 6:53. There I fixed it. Didn’t have my coffee this morning. Thanks for reminding me.

[SpirituTuo]

I seriously doubt the reporters of this story speak Italian, and are using a internet translator. Pretty sloppy, if you ask me, and certainly shouldn't be considered a definitive source. One more versed in Italian than I indicated the word "demiurge" was used in Italian, and translated into English as "divine." Since I don't speak Italian, I looked it up, and found it is also a term used in English. The wikipedia definition is: The demiurge (/ˈdɛmiˌɜrdʒ/) is a concept from the Platonic, Neopythagorean, Middle Platonic, and Neoplatonic schools of philosophy for an artisan-like figure responsible for the fashioning and maintenance of the physical universe. The term was subsequently adopted by the Gnostics. Although a fashioner, the demiurge is not necessarily thought of as being the same as the creator figure in the familiar monotheistic sense, because both the demiurge itself plus the material from which the demiurge fashions the universe are considered either uncreated and eternal, or the product of some other being, depending on the system. ...In the arch-dualist ideology of the various Gnostic systems, the material universe is evil, while the non-material world is good. Accordingly, the demiurge is malevolent, as linked to the material world. Words certainly matter, but we have to remember that a reporter is out to make a story that will catch people's attention, often at the price of accuracy.

[SpirituTuo]

You are kind of making my point for me.

You choose not to accept Roman Catholicism as the one, true, Church founded by Christ himself, and whose representative on Earth, the Vicar of Christ, is known as the Supreme Pontiff, or more simply, the Pope (Bishop of Rome).

By not accepting His church, your are morally free to ignore the teachings of His church. You are not bound to anything any Pope says. You don’t have to agree with any dogmata, nor with any discipline, doctrine, etc.

In short, no Catholic, no problem. Worry about what is happening in your own church, and live a happy person.

[delchiante]

Quote. Every time a protestant decides to reinterpret something they launch a new church.

And that is their problem.. they start with the false premise that the mother church has a rightful claim to the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the His Beloved Son, Yahshua.

The mother’s claim is to the greco roman latin counterfeit that they created and gave themselves new holy days that match their new invented savior instead of those dates that do proveTorah did become flesh and dwelt among us..

But those daughters call today Thor’s day too so they have no problem giving glory to other gods like their mother..

[Alex Murphy]

Post of the day - so true!! Why does any non Catholic care?

Why bother posting any Catholic threads to this non-Catholic form then?

[SpirituTuo]

Have members of Swiss Guard shown up at your house and demanded you attend Mass? Have roving gangs of Knights of Columbus come to your house of worship and installed kneelers and brought statues? Has your monarch ripped the roofs off monasteries and looted your churches (oh, wait, that was Henry VIII).

So, how in the world can the Pope force you to do anything?

As Vicar of Christ, the Pope is responsible to preach the Gospel message. However, there have always been heretics and schismatics. Christ calls all people to Himself. He built the Church on Peter (You are Peter and upon this rock...). We are called to unified in Christ. Therefore, unity is what we should achieve. Unity under the Vicar of Christ.

However, nobody is going to make you. Its totally up to you.

[SpirituTuo]

Because it is an assault, an affront, and insult to our spiritual leader, the Vicar of Christ.

Additionally, it is self-serving (see his promotional links at the bottom), inaccurate, and just plain mean.

When somebody takes a shot your pastor, let me know if you will willing stand idly by.

[GeronL]

Unity in Christ is what we should aim for

The Pope is as fallible as anyone and we aren’t suppose to follow humans

[Patriotic1]

It appears that you copied that text from somewhere. Can you direct me to it?

[Patriotic1]

Oh, and I might not make that mistake again, but the Church’s position doesn’t rest on his position. Basically, I believe the Bible is salvation history, not literalism in terms of history or science. And I believe the Catholic Church has believed that for some time (and yes, I am researching that too!). Now, as to what individual priests, nuns, etc have taught to various children throughout the decades isn’t something that proves or disproves the point. (I say that only because inevitably someone comes along saying that ‘the nuns taught me XYZ’ in order to refute something.)

[SpirituTuo]

Unity in Christ should definitely be the goal of all Christians!

You don’t seem to understand infallibility, so here is what it means (From the Catechism of the Catholic Church) http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p4.htm:

888 Bishops, with priests as co-workers, have as their first task “to preach the Gospel of God to all men,” in keeping with the Lord’s command.415 They are “heralds of faith, who draw new disciples to Christ; they are authentic teachers” of the apostolic faith “endowed with the authority of Christ.”416

889 In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a “supernatural sense of faith” the People of God, under the guidance of the Church’s living Magisterium, “unfailingly adheres to this faith.”417

890 The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium’s task to preserve God’s people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church’s shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms:

891 “The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals. . . . The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,” above all in an Ecumenical Council.418 When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine “for belief as being divinely revealed,”419 and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions “must be adhered to with the obedience of faith.”420 This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.421

892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a “definitive manner,” they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful “are to adhere to it with religious assent”422 which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it.

Finally, who taught you about Jesus? Another person, right? Whose advise do you follow on spiritual matters? Another person, right? Who told you we aren’t supposed to have spiritual teachers and leaders?

[Patriotic1]

Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegorical_interpretations_of_Genesis (Granted it's wikipedia but there are citations for Augustine and Genesis.)

And it's not that simple:

Saint Augustine, one of the most influential theologians of the Catholic Church, suggested that the Biblical text should not be interpreted literally if it contradicts what we know from science and our God-given reason. From an important passage on his "The Literal Interpretation of Genesis" (early fifth century, AD), St. Augustine wrote:

..SNIP...

In the book, Augustine took the view that everything in the universe was created simultaneously by God, and not in seven days like a plain account of Genesis would require. He argues that the six-day structure of creation presented in the book of Genesis represents a logical framework, rather than the passage of time in a physical way. Augustine also doesn’t envisage original sin as originating structural changes in the universe, and even suggests that the bodies of Adam and Eve were already created mortal before the Fall. Apart from his specific views, Augustine recognizes that the interpretation of the creation story is difficult, and remarks that we should be willing to change our mind about it as new information comes up.

But yes, in the City of God he defends the young earth idea.

Another Early Church Father, Origen, came out against it.

Ludwig Ott wrote about it citing early Councils and Fathers in his book Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma. I think I have it so if you want more quotes supporting a non-literal interpretation from a Catholic perspective.

What I will NOT do is get into a evo-creationist argument. You are free to accept my facts or not. You can interpret things differently, but things are what they are.

[Alex Murphy]

....it is an assault, an affront, and insult to our spiritual leader, the Vicar of Christ...When somebody takes a shot your pastor, let me know if you will willing stand idly by.

It's happened. There's even a couple of FRoman Catholics here who take regular potshots at Billy Graham and place him in the same category as Al Sharpton and Jeremiah Wright.

Tell the Vicar of Christ to grow a FReeper handle and respond for himself if he's really insulted. He uses Twitter, for crying out loud, so it shouldn't be too hard for him.

[SpirituTuo]

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p4.htm

Starting at paragraph 888. However, the whole page is informative. The entire Catechism can be found there, and you can also find the Code of Canon Law.

The USCCB website also has the Catechism. http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm

The Compendium is also very good, at it is the Cliff Notes version of the CCC. http://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

Hope this helps!

[SpirituTuo]

It is unfortunate that Billy Graham has been treated badly. I may not agree with all of his theology, but he seems earnestly interested in leading people to Jesus Christ.

Now, regarding the other so-called reverends, don’t get me started.

I think Twitter is about the only social media he can take on, with leading a Church of over 1 billion followers and all that requires. However, I assume you statement was humorous in nature, and I took it that way.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

I seriously doubt the reporters of this story speak Italian, and are using a internet translator. Pretty sloppy, if you ask me, and certainly shouldn't be considered a definitive source. One more versed in Italian than I indicated the word “demiurge” was used in Italian, and translated into English as “divine.” Since I don't speak Italian, I looked it up, and found it is also a term used in English. The wikipedia definition is: The demiurge (/ˈdÉ›miˌɜrdÊ’/) is a concept from the Platonic, Neopythagorean, Middle Platonic, and Neoplatonic schools of philosophy for an artisan-like figure responsible for the fashioning and maintenance of the physical universe. The term was subsequently adopted by the Gnostics. Although a fashioner, the demiurge is not necessarily thought of as being the same as the creator figure in the familiar monotheistic sense, because both the demiurge itself plus the material from which the demiurge fashions the universe are considered either uncreated and eternal, or the product of some other being, depending on the system. ...In the arch-dualist ideology of the various Gnostic systems, the material universe is evil, while the non-material world is good. Accordingly, the demiurge is malevolent, as linked to the material world. Words certainly matter, but we have to remember that a reporter is out to make a story that will catch people's attention, often at the price of accuracy.

---

Interesting. That would sail over the heads of the reporters. So depending on whether they translate the word (ie divine) or transliterate (demiurge) the meaning would be completely different. Don't any of the major media outlets that do International news have offices in Rome with folks fluent in Italian. Do they all rely on the wire service or something? If they really wanted to get to the bottom of this instead of stir up controversy, I should think this would be a non-question.

I'm not Catholic, but even I get the feeling the media is trying to manufacture some hysteria about the Pope so they don't have to report on what he said about gay marriage.