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To: campaignPete R-CT; Greetings_Puny_Humans
Luther, like everyone, must have wondered how God could allow a wicked man to be the visible head of his Church. All types of moral problems confronted Luther even in his own country of Germany. Luther was scandalized, as anyone who loved God should have been. He allowed the scandal to drive him from the Church.”

Not exactly... Luther tried for YEARS to reform the Catholic church from the wickedness and debauchery its leaders had sunk to. In turn, he got threatened, persecuted, chased out of his home, pursued by kings, princes and clergy in order to execute him. It was when he was excommunicated for refusing to recant his thesis and preaching questioning the novel doctrines, depraved clergy and perverted gospel within the Roman Catholic church, that he finally left. The "scandal" was not remedied from within as it should have been and is why he, as well as thousands of others, left. They did not give up on their faith but chose to worship with those who also realized that the "fullness of the faith" could no longer be found with the leaders in Rome.

100 posted on 10/18/2014 12:35:11 AM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

“Not exactly... Luther tried for YEARS to reform the Catholic church from the wickedness and debauchery its leaders had sunk to.”

False. Luther came up with his own doctrines around 1511-12. He only openly started his “reform movement” on October 31, 1517. He was calling for acts of violence and theft against the Church in 1520. Thus, at most, you could say his career as a “reformer WITHIN the Church” lasted three years. And even that conclusion is fraught with difficulties because of Luther pushing his own doctrines rather tha actually trying to reform anyone from “the wickedness and debauchery [they] had sunk to.”

“In turn, he got threatened, persecuted, chased out of his home, pursued by kings, princes and clergy in order to execute him.”

He was hunted by those who knew he was a heretic and that he would cause civil war - which happened and continued to happen for centuries. Remember there were only two religious wars anyone could think of in Europe before that time: 1) against Islam (a defensive war) and against heretics like the Hussites and Albigensians (which were considered defensive as well for the good of society). Now, they knew there would be more war. And that’s what Europe got - for four centuries.

“It was when he was excommunicated for refusing to recant his thesis and preaching questioning the novel doctrines, depraved clergy and perverted gospel within the Roman Catholic church, that he finally left.”

No. The problem with your THESIS (please note, it is a thesis, Luther had THESES) is that it doesn’t take into account what actually happened. Luther’s doctrines were the novel ones. Even Protestants sometimes admit this. Alister McGrath admits this about Luther in his doctrinal dissertation (I read it myself; the two volume published version). Also, the gospel of the Catholic Church is in fact THE gospel as more and more Protestants are tacitly admitting with their theological halfway house called “the New Perspective on Paul”. Also, if you’re saying now that Luther was done only when he was excommunicated - which happened in January 1521 - then that means his whole career as a “reformer WITHIN the Church” lasted a whopping 3 years and 3 months. That was not exactly a long career now was it?

“The “scandal” was not remedied from within as it should have been and is why he, as well as thousands of others, left.”

His false doctrines were the scandal. He was excommunicated. It was remedied from within.

“They did not give up on their faith but chose to worship with those who also realized that the “fullness of the faith” could no longer be found with the leaders in Rome.”

No, they gave up the only faith they had ever known and that any of their ancestors had known and replaced it with a false gospel.


108 posted on 10/18/2014 7:53:33 AM PDT by vladimir998
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