[vladimir998]

“Not exactly... Luther tried for YEARS to reform the Catholic church from the wickedness and debauchery its leaders had sunk to.”

False. Luther came up with his own doctrines around 1511-12. He only openly started his “reform movement” on October 31, 1517. He was calling for acts of violence and theft against the Church in 1520. Thus, at most, you could say his career as a “reformer WITHIN the Church” lasted three years. And even that conclusion is fraught with difficulties because of Luther pushing his own doctrines rather tha actually trying to reform anyone from “the wickedness and debauchery [they] had sunk to.”

“In turn, he got threatened, persecuted, chased out of his home, pursued by kings, princes and clergy in order to execute him.”

He was hunted by those who knew he was a heretic and that he would cause civil war - which happened and continued to happen for centuries. Remember there were only two religious wars anyone could think of in Europe before that time: 1) against Islam (a defensive war) and against heretics like the Hussites and Albigensians (which were considered defensive as well for the good of society). Now, they knew there would be more war. And that’s what Europe got - for four centuries.

“It was when he was excommunicated for refusing to recant his thesis and preaching questioning the novel doctrines, depraved clergy and perverted gospel within the Roman Catholic church, that he finally left.”

No. The problem with your THESIS (please note, it is a thesis, Luther had THESES) is that it doesn’t take into account what actually happened. Luther’s doctrines were the novel ones. Even Protestants sometimes admit this. Alister McGrath admits this about Luther in his doctrinal dissertation (I read it myself; the two volume published version). Also, the gospel of the Catholic Church is in fact THE gospel as more and more Protestants are tacitly admitting with their theological halfway house called “the New Perspective on Paul”. Also, if you’re saying now that Luther was done only when he was excommunicated - which happened in January 1521 - then that means his whole career as a “reformer WITHIN the Church” lasted a whopping 3 years and 3 months. That was not exactly a long career now was it?

“The “scandal” was not remedied from within as it should have been and is why he, as well as thousands of others, left.”

His false doctrines were the scandal. He was excommunicated. It was remedied from within.

“They did not give up on their faith but chose to worship with those who also realized that the “fullness of the faith” could no longer be found with the leaders in Rome.”

No, they gave up the only faith they had ever known and that any of their ancestors had known and replaced it with a false gospel.

[boatbums]

His (Luther) false doctrines were the scandal. He was excommunicated. It was remedied from within.

What "false" doctrines are those?

No, they gave up the only faith they had ever known and that any of their ancestors had known and replaced it with a false gospel.

Incorrect. The only things "they" gave up were the novel dogmas invented/developed/changed by Roman Catholicism (i.e., indulgence payments; "tradition" and "magesterium" being placed as equal to Divinely-inspired Scripture; justification by faith AND works instead of by grace alone through faith alone). Belief in Jesus Christ, God incarnate, his death, burial and resurrection, complete sacrifice for our sins, the Trinity and all the other central tenets of the historic Christian faith were and remained. Even the Orthodox rejected the claims of Rome five hundred years earlier for the SAME reasons as the Reformers. If you or anyone would like to read Luther's actual correspondences with the Pope of Rome and others as this was going on and how it led up to his excommunication, read http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2005/10/letters-of-martin-luther.html.

Nobody worships Martin Luther nor do I consider him the Pope of Protestantism. He's a fallible man - as we ALL are - but a man who loved the Lord and his fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. I admire and respect his sincerity, faith, strength and trust in Almighty God through many trials and struggles. From his letter of April 7, 1516, we read about the sincere faith he had and we see how God used him to clarify the TRUE gospel and lead souls to saving faith in Jesus Christ:

For, at present, the temptation to rest in one’s own works is very powerful, especially with those who long to be good and pious. They are ignorant of God’s righteousness, which has been so richly bestowed on us in Christ without money and price, and try to do good of themselves, till they fancy they can appear before God adorned with every grace. But they never get thus far. You, yourself, when with us in Erfurt suffered from this illusion, or rather delusion, and I also was a martyr to it, and even yet I have not overcome it. Therefore, dear brother, learn Christ and Him crucified. Praise and laud His name, and despairing of self, say to Him, “Thou, Lord Jesus, art my righteousness, but I am Thy sin. Thou hast taken what is mine, and given me what is Thine. Thou hast assumed that which Thou wert not, and given me what I had not.”

Beware, my brother, at aiming at a purity which rebels against being classed with sinners. For Christ only dwells among sinners. For this He came from heaven, where He dwelt among saints, so that He might also sojourn with the sinful. Strive after such love, and thou wilt experience His sweetest consolation. For if by our own efforts we are to attain peace of conscience, why then did Christ die? Therefore thou wilt only find peace in Him when thou despairest of self and thine own works. He, Himself, will teach thee how in receiving thee He makes thy sins His, and His righteousness thine. When thou believest this firmly (for he is damned who does not believe) then bear patiently with erring brothers, making their sins thine. If there be any good in thee, then receive ye one another, even as Christ received us, to the glory of God. “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” Be thou the same. If thou esteem thyself better than others, do not pride thyself on that, but be as one of them, bearing their burdens. For he is a pitiable saint who will not bear patiently with those worse than himself, and longs only for solitude, when he, through patience, prayer, and example, might be exercising a salutary influence over others. This is burying his Lord’s talent, and not giving his fellow-servants their due. Therefore, be thou a lily or rose of Christ, knowing that thy walk must be among thorns.

Only see that through impatience, hasty judgments, or secret pride, thou dost not thyself become a thorn! “Christ’s kingdom,” says the psalmist, “subsists in the midst of its enemies.” Why then rejoice in being surrounded only by faithful friends? If He, thy Lord, had only lived among the good, or had died only for His friends, for whom then would He have died, or with whom could He have lived? Remember this, brother, and pray for me. The Lord be with thee. Farewell, in the Lord! Your brother, MARTIN LUTHER, Augustinian. (De Wette.) TO GEORGE LEIFFER Luther comforts a brother in Erfurt.