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To: af_vet_1981
..AnaBaptists who Luther condemned for heresy in writing,

Which testifies to the fact that Luther is not determinative of evangelical faith, contrary to the RC imagination. The weight of Scripture that he pointed to as supreme is, and thus Luther himself progressed in theological views.

Most Christians belong to denominations that practise infant baptism

Misleading. This is mostly based upon Catholics and EOs, and does not refute that paedobaptism is a minority position in Protestantism.

Looking at the 15 largest Prot. denoms in in America (the only list under one heading i could find)

their reports:

1. Southern Baptist Convention: 16.2 million members
2. The United Methodist Church: 7.8 million members
3. The Church of God in Christ: 5.5 million members
4. National Baptist Convention: 5.0 million members
5. Evangelical Lutheran Church, U.S.A.: 4.5 million members
6. National Baptist Convention of America: 3.5 million members
7. Assemblies of God: 2.9 million members
8. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.): 2.8 million members
9. African Methodist Episcopal Church: 2.5 million members
10. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America: 2.5 million members
11. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS): 2.3 million members
12. The Episcopal Church: 2.0 million members
13. Churches of Christ: 1.6 million members
14. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World: 1.5 million members
15. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church: 1.4 million members

The majority of Protestant denominations in America, , approx. 38 million, reject infant baptism, versus approx. 22 that practice it.

Worldwide is more difficult in real terms, as they include Lutheran state churches in which i think one may be counted as a member by default, yet even still, with Baptist churches at 75-100 million and Modern Protestantism (Pentecostalism, Nondenominational evangelicalism, etc) at 400-500 million - and not including cults - then it out numbers the approx 300 million Lutheran, Methodist, Reformed, Anglican type churches WW.

You could explain which historical Protestants do not practice it today and show when that originated. Basically anything Baptist (SBC being the largest by far) or "Modern Protestantism" in the list .

Believer's (adult) baptism was a minority position among Protestants until the 1800's and the Great Awakenings, the effects of which can be seen today.

The cause was because the Scriptures, under which they were born again with its profound changes in heart and life, became alive to souls and the standard for Truth. After i become born again i was very hungry to know how to please God according to Scripture, yet overall marginalized peripheral or debatable issues.

And therein they could only find infant baptism by conjecture, that whole house baptisms must have includes kids who could not discern sin and their need for Christ, yet in any description of any real detail, it is those who could hear and respond that were baptized, and which is required to fulfil the stated conditions.

And it is simply inconceivable that the Holy Spirit would not provide at least one example of infant baptism considering is cardinal importance according to Catholicism.

Yet as said, there is a difference btwn simply seeing baptism as including one in covenant with others, versus holding it renders he baptized formally justified by his own, if infused, holiness, thus requiring purgatory to obtain such Holiness at the end.

3,173 posted on 10/23/2014 7:48:04 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212; af_vet_1981

To which I would add that most Baptists reject paedobaptism, not only because it is not exampled in Scripture, but also because they do not have a sacramental view of baptism, but as with the Lord’s Supper, understand that the outward act expresses a grace already inwardly received.

Sacramentalism is a correlate of sacerdotalism; the two stand or fall together, though in varying degree. If one must have priests, they must earn their keep as intermediaries between men and God and do SOMEthing only a priest can do, such as administer the sacraments. But if the Scriptures do not teach a continuation of the OT priesthood (and how could they, given Christ has met all the real obligations for which the OT priests were mere foreshadowing), then sacramental ritual as a means of grace is a superfluity, a redundancy to the grace already recieved.

Grace is not a fluid, like a fuel we can run out of, or something periodically doled out to us like prescription pills. Rather it is written into everything our Heavenly Father does for us, his undeserved favor, which lights up every dark corner of our life with undeserved joy, and which is not conditional on whether our skin is washed in water or our mouth occupied with bread and wine, but on His unconditional, unlimited, unending love for us.

Peace,

SR


3,178 posted on 10/23/2014 9:51:58 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: daniel1212
Believer's (adult) baptism was a minority position among Protestants until the 1800's and the Great Awakenings, the effects of which can be seen today.

Thanks for a civil and interesting lesson. I see that, from your perspective, Protestantism evolved and assume for the intents and purposes of this discussion has only recently evolved to what you consider the truth. The problem I see in this is still the same, for Modern Protestantism to be correct, Orthodox Christianity has to be wrong, and we both can admit historical, original Protestantism was wrong, albeit for different reasons.

3,191 posted on 10/24/2014 7:47:17 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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