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To: CynicalBear
"Dear St. Anthony, we are all pilgrims. We came from God and we are going to Him. He who created us will welcome us at journey's end. The Lord Jesus is preparing a place for all His brothers and sisters. St. Anthony, Guide of Pilgrims, direct my steps in the straight path. Protect me until I am safely home in heaven. Help me in all my needs and difficulties. (Name them.) [http://catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?s=41] Tell me again how Catholics ONLY ask them to be pray FOR them."

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You are mistaking a prayer shortcut (with obvious implicit direction to God through the saint for fulfillment) with some kind of stand-alone action by a saint.

As a very rough and very imperfect illustration, when Donald Trump asks his butler to bring him a case of "Courvoisier", he doesn't think the butler is going to go make it in his basement or something, and he also doesn't specifically tell him to go the liquor store and buy it either -- that is implied in his request, and just goes without saying.    He just makes the simple request to the butler, and the butler will go to the source he has to in order to get that request successfully fulfilled for Trump.

Your mischaracterizations of those fervent prayer requests you keep searching around for, grossly distort the whole picture of what is actually happening.    The saints in heaven who hear these requests are intelligent, and understand perfectly what the person praying is actually requesting, and that it is God who actually fulfills all prayer requests.

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"Yes, I do mean to tell you that. We are told to go boldly before the throne. To think that somehow God is incapable of hearing our prayers as well as those in heaven is doubting His omnipresence and omniscience."

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Once again, you are grossly misstating what I said.    I'm not talking about God's ability to hear our prayers.    I'm talking about our own ability to formulate and express prayers, when we are tired, distracted, agitated, hungry, confused, etc., all maladies not suffered by the saints in heaven.

Now God does not need ANY prayers.    God already knows every single need, and every single prayer request that will ever be made by anyone, including all people on earth, and all the saints in heaven.    However, we do know that God wants (for our sakes) all of us to pray for one another, as He plainly tells us in His Sacred Written Word.

Do you not believe God when He says that?

God also wants us to love Him, and to love one another, and prayers for others is a wonderful way to extend our love to them (and that love principle still holds true for the saints in heaven).

1,601 posted on 10/14/2014 8:33:10 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ("Our hearts are restless, Lord, until they rest in Thee." - St. Augustine)
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To: Heart-Rest
>>You are mistaking a prayer shortcut<<

I'm not mistaking anything. I could have posted example after example of prayers to saints and Mary not only asking for specific acts on their part but dedicatjng oneself totally to that entity rather than to God. Catholics can nuance the issue all they want but it's only they who are being deceived.

>>As a very rough and very imperfect illustration<<

No, it's actually a carnal attempt obfuscate the truth. The prayer was specifically asking that saint to perform an act. Words mean something. When I ask someone to pray for me I don't ask that person actually perform the task. Your feeble attempt is laughable and sad.

>>Now God does not need ANY prayers.<<

We are told to pray and to whom to pray.

Catholics deny that they pray TO saints and Mary then when shown proof that they actually do contrive some sort of denial. They are not deceiving anyone but themselves.

1,653 posted on 10/15/2014 6:37:11 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus info)
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To: Heart-Rest
You are mistaking a prayer shortcut (with obvious implicit direction to God through the saint for fulfillment) with some kind of stand-alone action by a saint.

WHO is standing on YOUR dashboard?


1,655 posted on 10/15/2014 6:44:13 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Heart-Rest
You are mistaking a prayer shortcut (with obvious implicit direction to God through the saint for fulfillment) with some kind of stand-alone action by a saint.

What a bunch of hogwash.

That is a prayer directed TO a saint asking him specifically FOR something.

All the rationalization in the world isn't going to change the fact one bit that that prayer was not to God.

1,964 posted on 10/16/2014 4:14:30 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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