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To: JPX2011; Resettozero
Besides, God instituted His Church which is the normative approach to seeking repentance and absolution in this life through the scripturally ordained Sacrament of Confession. I don't need to run to the Bible for everything.

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with Catholicism. You DO need to check with the Bible for everything regarding salvation and there you'll find that there is no scripturally ordained 'sacrament' for anything, much less confession. The word isn't even in the Bible to begin with, nor is there any precedent for confessing sins to a priest for absolution.

It's all a bogus power grab, claiming to have the power over people to determine their eternal destiny. What the ultimate control mechanism.

1,268 posted on 10/12/2014 10:42:43 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom
You DO need to check with the Bible for everything regarding salvation...

Not when I have a living, breathing Church ordained by God. It would seem that protestants don't have an appreciation for the difference between living their faith as opposed to just reading about it.

...[a]nd there you'll find that there is no scripturally ordained 'sacrament' for anything, much less confession.

20 If a man carnally lie with a woman that is a bondservant and marriageable, and yet not redeemed with a price, nor made free: they both shall be scourged: and they shall not be put to death, because she was not a free woman.

21 And for his trespass he shall offer a ram to the Lord, at the door of the tabernacle of the testimony.

22 And the priest shall pray for him: and for his sin before the Lord: and he shall have mercy on him, and the sin shall be forgiven. [1]

And should the protestant feel compelled to retort with, "Jesus the High Priest" I offer the following NT verse:

21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.

22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.

23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. [2]

The word isn't even in the Bible to begin with, nor is there any precedent for confessing sins to a priest for absolution.

I think precedent has been established. As for the word itself, well neither is the word Trinity so that's no standard by which to ascertain scriptural warrant.

It's all a bogus power grab, claiming to have the power over people to determine their eternal destiny. What the ultimate control mechanism.

I've always found it interesting how the most conservative of protestants instantly turn into the most ardent of AFL-CIO-like acolytes with their talk of the Church and its "control" and "power grabs". I'm surprised they don't recognize this level of cognitive dissonance within themselves. Actually I think it's their love of the autonomous self-will. After all that is the mechanism by which they can proclaim the authority to interpret scripture.

[1] The Holy Bible, Translated from the Latin Vulgate. (2009). (Le 19:20–22). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

[2] The Holy Bible, Translated from the Latin Vulgate. (2009). (Jn 20:21–23). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.

1,278 posted on 10/13/2014 1:19:03 AM PDT by JPX2011
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To: metmom
It's all a bogus power grab, claiming to have the power over people to determine their eternal destiny. What the ultimate control mechanism.

Mormonism learned the lesson well...


 
 
 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."
- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
 
 
 
 
"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88
 
 
 
 
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
 
 
 
 
"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
 
 
 
 
"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670


They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

1,335 posted on 10/13/2014 6:16:23 AM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: metmom
nor is there any precedent for confessing sins to a priest for absolution.

How about whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven, whose sins you shall retain, they are retained..........what do you imagine that Christ was talking about??? it explains the Sacrament of reconciliation EXACTLY....

1,442 posted on 10/13/2014 9:03:06 PM PDT by terycarl
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