Why would anyone become Catholic?

https://www.indiegogo.com ^ | October 2, 2014 | Indiegogo

[Elsie]

People have tried to discredit my Luther research before, with the same dismal and semi-humorous result.

Then perhaps you can gobsmack your critics by doing the same, exhaustive research about Mary.

[Elsie]

If Luther is wrong, the Reformation is illegitimate.

If Luther was wrong, the COUNTER-Reformation needs to be explained.

Have at it.

[Elsie]

... is that the kind of goal post moving you're talking about?

#1463

[af_vet_1981]

MSN = man

[Elsie]

I’m genuinely concerned for your well being. You seem agitated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ravi4YtUTxo

[Elsie]

Protestants can't help but employ the methods of revisionist historians to apply the modern understanding of things to the pre-modern world. which is fallacious on its face.

#1463

[RegulatorCountry]

There’s this peculiar fixation upon Martin Luther among those who dislike the Protestant Reformation, as if Luther was responsible for the whole thing. Never mind Calvin in Geneva, never mind the Church of England which disdained Luther, never mind Jan Hus a century before Luther, Knox, on and on, it’s just bizarre. Martin Luther was no “pope” figure, there’s no fealty to him personally at all, even among Lutherans. To the extent that he was right, he was right. Where he was wrong he was wrong, he’s never been held to be infallible. None of this seems to compute with those Catholics who are here arguing aggressively against the Reformation. Their arguments, page after page, day after day, depend upon this and it’s just so wide of the mark, it’s nonsensical.

[Elsie]

if that bird craps on my hat again...

[Elsie]

It reminds us how easily a man can be corrupted who strays from sound doctrine and makes up his own religion, using and twisting the Bible toward an unbalanced and evil end. ...and STILL be leading GOD's True Church all the while!!!

---

Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.^[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.^[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.^[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony^[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

(I've a LONG way to go in repeatedly posting this info in this thread if I am going to catch up to as many times as LUTHER has been mentioned herein.)

[Elsie]

You ain’t supposed to notice this ‘seeming’ discrepancy.

[CynicalBear]

>>None of this seems to compute with those Catholics who are here arguing aggressively against the Reformation.<<

Catholicism is carnally based on the leadership of man rather than Christ. They cannot sustain or defend their religion on Christ alone. Therefore they must in their own mind assign carnal man as the leadership of all religions.

[CynicalBear]

>>if that bird craps on my hat again...<<

That's what happens when they twist "like a dove" into " it's a dove".

[Elsie]

Are you saying that GOD could NOT do that if He wanted to?

---Wannabe_Catholic_Dude(Hail Mary!)

[BlueDragon]

Why would it surprise anyone that the Pope issues a bull which is in effect a hostage rescue operation...

So now that's what you are calling it?

I suppose the thumbscrews and all the stretching, and tying people's arms behind their back to then hoist them up by -- to then drop them crashingly to the floor (as recounted in one footnote, in a link previously supplied to you -- I suggest you do read that link) in order to extract "confession" from the victim in this case, was "hostage rescue".

I do wish you could understand how god-awfully SICK the RC justifications for past atrocities truly are.

I'm genuinely concerned for your well being. You seem agitated.

I don't believe a word of this being "concerned". All of a sudden, after all the bad waters which have been flowing under bridge after bridge (I read most all the comments on this forum) now all of a sudden, there is "genuine concern".

I'm not buying thaT for one second...for it comes across to me as extension of one of the little evil memes which one of your heroes around here likes to assert towards myself...while also being just as patronizing.

But why oh why would I seem agitated? Why would I even be "agitated"? lol

Could it be ... listening to (reading, actually) near-nonstop popish spin and distortion -- just maybe?

And then, witness all the other posing and posturing?

Personally, I found a niche area of theological/philosophical argumentation that isn't necessarily covered on the RF and so I'm exploiting it.

Some niche you've got there...

"Peace to you", a pope with a pet pigeon --- after months of insults and 'games'.

Careful. Gotta' be, better be careful, cuz'

Santy Claus is making a list

of who's naughty, and who's nice.

just look at that guy. he's gettin' serious...

[metmom]

It has to be a confusing mental gymnastics nightmare being a Catholic. They have their hierarchy proclaiming no one outside the Catholic Church is saved to " of course they do". Of course those that get saved outside the Catholic Church aren't perfectly saved or something like that.

Nah, they just write it off as one of the *mysteries of the faith* like they do with any blatant contradiction they espouse.

That allows them to tell whoever they're talking to what ever they want them to hear and then the RC's are always *right*.

[metmom]

Put me down as not much caring what Luther did.

Ditto that.

It's totally beyond a Catholic's comprehension that we do NOT follow a man, therefore they INSIST that we do, and set up the one who they feel they can most easily malign as (allegedly) our representative.

The fact that we've told them time and again that we don't follow Luther, never have, don't care what he taught, is clearly meaningless.

And in light of THESE guys, who they must own as popes, they complain about ONE man, Luther, most of which accusations against him are false, is laughable.

Top 10 Most Wicked Popes

http://listverse.com/2007/08/17/top-10-most-wicked-popes/

1. Liberius, reigned 352-66 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
2. Honorius I, reigned 625-638 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
3. Stephen VI, reigned 896-89 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
4. John XII, reigned 955-964 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
5. Benedict IX, reigned 1032-1048 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
6. Boniface VIII, reigned 1294-1303 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
7. Urban VI, reigned 1378-1389 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
8. Alexander VI, reigned 1492-1503 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
9. Leo X, reigned 1513-1521 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]
10. Clement VII, reigned 1523-1524 [Catholic Encyclopaedia]

Top 10 Worst Popes in History

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-popes-in-history.php

1. Pope Alexander VI (1431 – 1503)
2. Pope John XII (c. 937 – 964)
3. Pope Benedict IX (c. 1012 – 1065/85)
4. Pope Sergius III (? – 911)
5. Pope Stephen VI (? – 897)
6. Pope Julius III (1487 – 1555)
7. Pope Urban II (ca. 1035 – 1099)
8. Pope Clement VI (1291 – 1352)
9. Pope Leo X (1475 – 1521)
10. Pope Boniface VIII (c. 1235 – 1303)

[metmom]

If Luther was wrong, the COUNTER-Reformation needs to be explained.

Touche`

[daniel1212]

Which is why most protestants will say, "I'm not giving the homeless man a dollar because [whatever justification they use]. Their sense of charity being obfuscated by either secular concerns or protection against injury to self. It's worship of self, self-deification that is the order of the day for protestants.

In contrast to your fantasy, you can have your one-size-fits-all definition of Protestant that is so wide you can drive a Unitarian Scientology Swedenborgian 747 thru it, but the fact is that those who hold most strongly to the most fundamental distinctive of the Reformation, that of Scripture being supreme as the assured word of God, versus the church and men as having assured veracity (as in Rome and cults), testify to far greater devotion to the Lord Jesus and His word than the overall fruit of Rome.

And what one believes is shown by what they do and effect, (Mt. 7:20; Ja. 2:18) which Rome shows by treating even prosodomite proabortion pols as members in life and in death, sending a message to the rest. For which Scripture is constant, the interpretation of men is not. Meanwhile the Protestants that are most lukewarm and liberal are those who are closest to Rome,

[metmom]

If Luther is wrong, the Reformation is illegitimate.

Which is totally irrelevant as we have Scripture by which can come to faith in Christ and to grow into mature Christians, workmen thoroughly equipped for ever good work.

[Resettozero]

Nah, they just write it off as one of the *mysteries of the faith* like they do with any blatant contradiction they espouse.

That allows them to tell whoever they're talking to what ever they want them to hear and then the RC's are always *right*.

It's difficult for me to discern whether they really and truly believe what they're posting or whether it's just their job to hold up the RCC side on FR Religion Forum threads and they know it's proven bunk.