Posted on 09/17/2014 9:07:14 AM PDT by thetallguy24
Pope Francis, with his open-mindedness and more humanist approach to Catholicism reportedly promoted that the Virgin Mary should be at the second Holy Trinity, even putting her at Godhead level.
Pope Francis recently attended the morning mass for the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows on Sept. 15 at Casa Santa Marta. He preached on how the Virgin Mary "learned, obeyed and suffered at the foot of the cross," according to the Vatican Radio.
"Even the Mother, 'the New Eve', as Paul himself calls her, in order to participate in her Son's journey, learned, suffered and obeyed. And thus she becomes Mother," Pope Francis said.
The Pope further added that Mary is the "anointed Mother." Pope Francis said the Virgin Mary is one with the church. Without her Jesus Christ would not have been born and introduced into Christian lives. Without the Virgin Mary there would be no Mother Church.
"Without the Church, we cannot go forward," the Pope added during his sermon.
Now The End Begins claims Pope Francis' reflection on the Virgin Mary suggests people's hope is not Jesus Christ but the Mother Church.
The site claims his sermon somehow indicates a change in the position Jesus holds in the Holy Trinity. Jesus has reportedly been demoted to the third trinity. While the Virgin Mary and the Holy Mother Church, the Roman Catholic Church, takes over his place at the second trinity.
Additionally, basing on Pope Francis words he may have supposedly even put the status of the Blessed Virgin Mary at the "Godhead level."
Revelation 17:4-6 according to the site, gives meaning to the Pope's reflection. The chapter tells the story of the apostle John and his "great admiration" for the Virgin Mary. Now The End Begins claims the verses also speaks about the Holy Mother Church and how God thinks of the "holy Roman Mother Church".
However, the Bible seems to contradict Pope Francis promotion of the Virgin Mary to second trinity. The site quoted some passages wherein the "blessed hope" of the Christians is "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." There was reportedly never any mention of the Virgin Mary as being any kind of hope to anyone or anything.
But during the Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows, Pope Francis ended his reflection with the assurance of hope from the Virgin Mary and the Mother Church.
"Today we can go forward with a hope: the hope that our Mother Mary, steadfast at the Cross, and our Holy Mother, the hierarchical Church, give us," he said.
However, the Bible's passages shouldn't be taken literally, especially when it comes to reflections of the Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ.
The audience should have thrown eggs and rotten tomatoes at Sheen...
That one word co-operator can be understood (misunderstood?) to suggest including an initiating of the proceedings on her own part as co-initiator sort of thing, while continuing that into perpetuity even though the into perpetuity aspect is rather assumed to be true, as it is also the portion which many find problematic in a theological sense, all the after-the-fact explanations for the central-most assumptions concerning it being not enough to establish that such considerations in regards to Mary having been inclusive of the Gospel as originally preached -- best as that can be reconstructed through both biblical and earliest patristic evidences, these latter needing be examined and sifted for opinion expressed in relative isolation before some of those isolated expressions, in regards to Mary in this instance, later converge over time.
In practice [within Catholicism] what would or could be considered the working of the Holy Spirit within a person is at times attributed to "Mary" when such workings of the Spirit are said to convey something of a feminine aspect in (spiritual?) nature.
There was a link provided on another thread a few days ago now, one which I had seen posted on these pages before -- but could not find it just now when searching through literally hundreds of comments.
The linked-to article (which I now cannot find) mentioned a man who (if memory serves) related while he was yet "Protestant" before later converting to [Roman] Catholicism had experienced the Holy Spirit minister to him tenderly, in such a way as the man sensed or regarded as being feminine.
Shortly after his conversion he related this to a Catholic priest and was told "that was Mary" rather than the Holy Spirit.
Would you know of the account I am speaking of? The [theological] trouble I have with that sort of identification is that Christ, when speaking of the Comforter being sent to us -- this "Comforter" had in the earliest beginnings of the Church been understood to be the Holy Spirit -- not "Mary" or some other identifiable entity.
If it be that now, Mary is fully united with Christ, then so be it. I would wish & hope that that be the case. Yet in that sort of thinking, how to not then to begin considering them all to be of one substance, my using here the term substance (or the alternative "essence") much in the same manner Athanasius pressed for recognition that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit were all of one substance.
And if of one substance, (now with Mary and countless saints?) then why refer to this substance by multiple names, again separating identities if it as as otherwise also said in apologetic that all the various God-like powers & abilities widely attributed to belonging to Mary, she derives from any selection/combination of the three Persons of the Trinity?
If saints (including Mary) all stay separate enough to remain addressable to we mere earthlings by name -- if those individuals are capable of producing miracles attributable to themselves by name -- how have we not made a return towards polytheism in effect and in truth (returning to a sort of ancestor worship, this one with One Big God (in 3 persons) and a bunch of jr. grade gods (Mary the highest ranking of these in the more modest appraisals) with this all being explained and excused (made excuse for) by numerous rhetorical limiting qualifiers which are forthwith abandoned just about as soon as the critics of these sort of proceedings are out-of-sight, no longer raising objections?
'One could kick them out of the RC Church I suppose -- without needed merely "suppose" for one instance of that is said to have happened in the case of the last person put to death by the Inquisition...
> "The last official Spanish execution for heresy was in 1826, when a schoolmaster was hanged for substituting “Praise be to God” for “Ave Maria” in school prayers. The limpieza de sangre statutes remained valid (though increasingly unenforceable) until 1865.History of Christianity Paul Johnson p. 308
The stories of the saints can be quite fantastic, but they have all been gone over by the Catholic Church with a fine-toothed comb for years and years and years. If you read about St. Gemma Galgani, you can’t help but see her most beautiful love for Christ. http://www.stgemmagalgani.com/
Gemma Galgani was an extraordinary saint. She was not speaking to the devil, she was speaking with Christ: http://www.stgemmagalgani.com/
“She? Hilarious!!!! That’d be news to Elsie. And his wife.”
Choose a woman’s name and you’ll be called a woman. I’m not the only one to call Elsie that. Either way it’s fitting.
“No. This is not settled, other than in your own imagination perhaps.”
Nope. It was settled many posts ago. Everything I said was true.
“Your statement makes no sense at all, as this was my first comment on this subject.”
Sure it makes sense. Nothing you posted changes the truth at all. If that was your first post on the subject that is no less true.
Here’s a link to a letter that hangs outside our adoration chapel that Mother Teresa wrote: http://adorationrocks.com/letter.html
I follow scripture. I don’t believe Catholic pagan fairy tales.
If she was speaking to someone who was accusing she was most definitely speaking to Satan.
The dialogue in these things always sounds like it came out of an elementary school play, for some odd reason. “Jesus, I shall tattle on you to your mother.” “Oh my, please do not tell on me, I shan’t refuse you again.”
Do you think it was Satan who then caused the great sinner (Gemma Galgani was praying for) to ask forgiveness for his many sins?
I’ve posted the passage that shows the accuser is Satan. Jesus does not accuse us. He died to erase those sins from us. When we approach the throne of God we go “in Jesus name”. That means (just like if we have power of attorney) we are dealt with as if we are Jesus. That’s the power of “in Jesus name”. That’s also the power that Catholics lose by trying to go through Mary or their so called saints. The little fairy tale you posted is just that. Nothing but a pagan fairy tale.
“History of Christianity Paul Johnson p. 308”
I always liked Paul Johnson, but here his scholarship completely fails him. The teacher in question was executed by the Spanish secular authorities for pushing deism (which he learned after being captured by the French in the Napoleonic Wars) onto students under his charge. His heretical ideals destroyed the faith of a number of students and split families as a result.
Also, he was not tried by the Spanish Inquisition. The Spanish Inquisition had been disbanded by the French and pro-French authorities and had not yet been refounded. Instead the king of Spain, Ferdinand VII, established Juntas de fe in each diocese. They did not follow canon law nor inquisitorial procedure. These commissions were not even recognized by Spanish royal law but were accepted by the civil authorities in practice. The teacher in question was a liberal. His judge was a man who had once been imprisoned by liberals in 1820. Gee, you think he held a grudge? The juntas were a forum for “rightists” to pay back “liberals”. Ferdinand VII’s court began to worry that a new inquisitorial tribunal (remember, one did not exist at that time) would be used by right-wingers against the royal government. His police chief warned him about this as Luis Alonso Tejeda makes clear in his book, Ocaso de la Inquisición en los últimos años del reinado de Fernando VII: Juntas de fé, Juntas Apostólicas, conspiraciones realistas.
Ferdinand VII then cooperated with the papal nuncio, Msgr. Tiberi, to end the juntas and any possible future inquisition. After all the papacy had complained about the Spanish Inquisition and its excesses for centuries. As Stephen Haliczer sums it up in his book, Inquisition and Society in the Kingdom of Valencia, 1478-1834:
“The papacy was not at all reluctant to collaborate in the destruction of inquisitorial jurisdiction in Spain, and in a papal brief of October 5, 1829, Plus VIII granted the nunciatura’s tribunal of the Bota appellate jurisdiction over cases involving religious heresy. This flagrant example of papal interference in Spanish affairs, which would have been bitterly resented only a few decades earlier, perfectly accorded with Ferdinand’s wishes, and he confirmed the papal brief on February 6, 1830.”
If I am not mistaken James Anderson discusses the deist teacher’s case in his book, Daily Life during the Spanish Inquisition.
As Joseph Perez mentions in his book, The Spanish Inquisition, “This unfortunate man was so imprudent as to declare that Jesus was not the Son of God.”
Here’s a miracle that happened recently: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3205826/posts?
God did NOT die in any sense of the word. The definition of the words translated death or die in scripture mean to be separated from. When Jesus cried "why hast this forsaken me" it was only His human nature that was sepeated from God not His divine nature. His spiritual divine nature whent to paradise where He promised the thief would also be.
If by your comment you meant that God parishes on that cross it is considered heresy even by the Catholic Church I believe. Their are actually two heresies, theopassianism and patripassianism. God did not die.
Just as with all spiritual practices associated with experiencing the dead and departed....people not only leave themselves open for being deluded.....but they invite it....and the devil loves nothing better then to send his cohorts to fulfill that desire.
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