Posted on 09/12/2014 6:28:11 PM PDT by matthewrobertolson
According to Latter-Day Saints (LDS, Mormon) President Orson Hyde, Jesus was married to several women, including Mary Magdalene, and had biological children.
"..[In John 2,] Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and he told them what to do. Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. ... We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified. ... I do not despise to be called a son of Abraham, if he had a dozen wives; or to be called a brother, a son, a child of the Savior, if he had Mary, and Martha, and several others, as wives; and though he did cast seven devils out of one of them, it is all the same to me. ... I shall say here, that before the Savior died, he looked upon his own natural children, as we look upon ours; he saw his seed, and immediately afterwards he was cut off from the earth; but who shall declare his generation?"
-- Hyde, at the Mormon General Conference, on 6 October 1854. (Printed in Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 82.)
Apparently, this position had support from Brigham Young, Wilford Woodruff, Orson Pratt, and others.
The LDS organization has since denied these claims. A spokesman said, "The belief that Christ was married has never been official Church doctrine. It is neither sanctioned nor taught by the Church. While it is true that a few Church leaders in the mid-1800s expressed their opinions on the matter, it was not then, and is not now, Church doctrine."
Still, Hyde's is an allowed position within Mormonism. That is concerning.
Of course, Christ is the figurative Bridegroom -- but He is not so literally, in a carnal sense! Also, for the record, the "seed" of His mentioned in Isaiah 53:10 refers to our spiritual relationship with Him, in the sense of John 12:24 and Galatians 3:26.
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Mormonic placemarker
True
I’m sorry that I know two mormonS made me snicker.
mormonS work their entire lived for salvation, plus tithing, plus temple marriage, plus special undergarments.....
My elder mormon relatives still work daily at the lds food banks.
My experiences with mormonISM goes back to 1962.
1 Corinthians 7:32-33 provides warrant against the idea that the Lord had to be some sort of extreme ascetic to remain celibate, while it is contrary to the manner of Scriptural revelation, which is careful and comprehensive enough to mention the Lord having brother and sisters, and women who provided for the mission, and of His care for His mother, and of the apostles having wives, and the 2 exception to that, but never mentions a wife of the Lord, even when the context would warrant it.
Such as,
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? (Matthew 13:55)
Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? (1 Corinthians 9:5)
Moreover, the description of His life is that of a single person, whose material needs and for company are met by others such as the apostles, Mary, Martha and Lazarus, who are specifically mentioned as being loved by Him, but nowhere do we see even any intimation of this invisible wife.
The premise is that being a single prophet and informal rabbi was such a novel or radical thing that explicit mention of it must be expected, and i would agree if it were, except that it need not explicitly stated, but can be implicitly conveyed, and which it is, even though i do not see the celibate status of either John the Baptist or the Lord, both of whom the magisterium considered itinerant preachers, and thus more like the Essenes, as being either a novel or radical thing.
Kinda upsets the applecart that Catholicism has created by it's non-biblical picture it paint's of Mary: the mother of Jesus.
By subscribing to a Mormonic or Catholic idea that a universe of spiritual knowledge outside Scripture exists today about Christ and the people of God, such a thing as the Lord being married can be considered tenable. And the basic deification of Mary be made doctrine or sanctioned. As well as such cardinal events as the Lord bodily appearing in America or the bodily assumption of Mary and her enthronement,
My mail crashed, saw you sent something :-(
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I beg to differ. They use the JESUS CHRIST brand quite prominently. Look at the building signs next time.
If you are new to Christianity, would you think this is a Christian church?
“How much toil would it be worth, if working for it achieved salvation for a person? “
1. Can you visualize a REASON why Mohammad was so bitterly anti-Christian? If you knew your history you MIGHT be more understanding of it.
2. And, are you positive that it could ONLY have been Lucifer who spoke to Mohammad?
3. Are YOU privy to ALL of God's plans?
I will continue to TRY to be a good Catholic and NOT trash another's religion as Satanic.
I won't judge people by anything other that their actions. If those people WORSHIP Lucifer, then I judge them by that. They worship the Prince of Evil and will end up like him, eternity without God, in other words, HELL.
If they worship God as Allah or one of the Hindu pantheons, I won't TRASH them either.
The Muslims I knew deserved to be treated like the gentlemen they acted as. We lived and worked in THEIR country. We didn't HAVE to be there.
BTW, the Saudis NEVER hired Hindus since they were NOT "people of the Book." They hired on Christian and Muslim Indians.
Peace, wa salaaam.
I am privy to *some* of God’s plans, and so are you, because He has revealed them in Scripture. We know that all who are lost are deluded by the “god of this world,’ as Paul puts it. That doesn’t mean they aren’t nice people. I had a relative who experimented with Satanism before he became a Christian, and he was a nice person too, and I treated him accordingly.
But I’m not going to lie to people just to be nice to them. Jesus makes it clear none of these false religions are going to save anybody. These are false gods and false gospels and if you think Satan is not actively involved in these deceptions then you must not be reading from the same Bible. It’s clear that he is involved. My role as a Christian is not to let people get comfortable with being lost, but to gently but truthfully share the Gospel with them. That is not “trashing” them. It is the opposite. It is tough love. Like God has for us.
Think about it. If a parent loves their child, do they let them wander into a busy street? No, they shout a warning, they run and grab and pull them to safety, they would give up their own lives to save the child if necessary. But they would never, if they have love, allow the danger to go unnoticed or unmentioned for fear of not being nice.
The single nicest, most loving thing you can do for one who is not yet a follower of Jesus Christ is to warn them of the terrible danger they are in and their need for forgiveness and new life in Him. I know that’s my motive for sharing the Gospel here on FR and wherever else I get the opportunity. It’s not to trash anyone, but in hopes of seeing their life rescued by God’s grace. There is no other name under heaven by which anyone can be saved. If someone truly believes that, why would they settle for mere niceness, when redemption in Jesus is so much better?
Peace,
SR
Man looks on the outside; but GOD looks on the inside.
(So do Christians who actually KNOW a little bit about what the Bible teaches and what MormonISM does as well.)
They sure do!
(Counterfeit money can LOOK mighty convincing.)
They sure do!
(Counterfeit money can LOOK mighty convincing.)
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.Who has made this so?Have I?Have this people?Have the world?No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.Can you pass without his inspection?No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
Amazing. So the Morman Church found a way to be a corporation. The best of both worlds.
I beg to differ. They use the JESUS CHRIST brand quite prominently. Look at the building signs next time. If you are new to Christianity, would you think this is a Christian church?
But the issue was that Mormonism is not Protestant. Using the name of the Lord, and in vain here, does not mean you are claiming to be Protestant (as FR also recognizes in this case).
Even Rome (often mis) uses the Lord's name and does not consider herself or Mormons to be Protestant Christians (while Rome and Mormonism have many distinctive similarities , along with critical differences ).
And rather than the LDS claiming to be Protestant, the fact is that it rejected all churches in its genesis, thus it cannot be Protestant, unless one want to define terms so far removed from their original meaning that Scientology and Hitler can be called Christian.
And greyfoxx39 reports, This article I’m a Mormon, Not a Christian rather spitefully addresses the topic.
I want to be on record about this. I’m about as genuine a Mormon as you’ll find — a templegoer with a Utah pedigree and an administrative position in a congregation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am also emphatically not a Christian. "I hope Mormonism eventually realizes that it doesn’t need Christianity’s approval and will get big and beat up all the imperious Christians who tormented it when it was small, weird and painfully self-conscious. Mormons are certainly Christian enough to know how to spitefully abuse their power."
And what would you say is the difference btwn holiness and righteousness, and Godliness? We must go for all three.
One of the things that has been of great interest in this study is the fact that God delights in us far more than we delight in Him.
In Christ, thank God, but then you have the displeasure and warnings of Rv. 2+3. His good pleasure is that we be conformed to Christ practically in this life, not merely positionally, to which end He works unceasingly, thank God.
"We have also proved that both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time."
Orson Pratt, 1 of the original 12 "apostles" as quoted in The Seer, p. 172 (1853)
Many mormons are quite ignorant, most willingly, of their history and the teachings of their "leaders".
An "apostle" is not a black sheep, even though the revisionists in SLC sure make many into black sheep by "revising", or should I say, "receiving revelation" that the former was "in error".
Funny thing for a religion that claims these folks are appointed/anointed via direct revelation from "god"...
I stand corrected, and rightfully so, on the “Mormonism is not Protestant” subject.
It just ticks me off every time I go by an LDS building and see those signs, all using the JESUS CHRIST name most prominently per SLC’s PR directive.
If they instead wrote “OUR VERSION OF JESUS CHRIST - YOU KNOW THE ONE THAT KILLED MULTITUDES ON THE FIRST EASTER WEEKEND DURING A SHORT HOP OVER TO THE AMERICAS JUST BEFORE HE WENT BACK HOME TO PREACH LOVE AS A NEW COMMANDMENT”, then that might make me feel better.
At least it would be honest.
And before that...
Millions of the Jaredites are slain in battle—Shiz and Coriantumr assemble all the people to mortal combat—The Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with them—The Jaredite nation is utterly destroyed—Only Coriantumr remains.
1 And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the awords which Ether had spoken unto him.
2 He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly atwo millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.
3 He began to repent of the evil which he had done; he began to remember the words which had been spoken by the mouth of all the prophets, and he saw them that they were fulfilled thus far, every whit; and his soul amourned and refused to be bcomforted.
4 And it came to pass that he wrote an epistle unto Shiz, desiring him that he would spare the people, and he would give up the kingdom for the sake of the lives of the people.
5 And it came to pass that when Shiz had received his epistle he wrote an epistle unto Coriantumr, that if he would give himself up, that he might slay him with his own sword, that he would spare the lives of the people.
6 And it came to pass that the people repented not of their iniquity; and the people of Coriantumr were stirred up to anger against the people of Shiz; and the people of Shiz were stirred up to anger against the people of Coriantumr; wherefore, the people of Shiz did give battle unto the people of Coriantumr.
7 And when Coriantumr saw that he was about to fall he fled again before the people of Shiz.
8 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all; wherefore, when they came to these waters they pitched their tents; and Shiz also pitched his tents near unto them; and therefore on the morrow they did come to battle.
9 And it came to pass that they fought an exceedingly sore battle, in which Coriantumr was wounded again, and he fainted with the loss of blood.
10 And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath.
11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did ahide up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.
12 And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether.
13 And it came to pass that Ether did abehold all the doings of the people; and he beheld that the people who were for Coriantumr were gathered together to the army of Coriantumr; and the people who were for Shiz were gathered together to the army of Shiz.
14 Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive.
15 And it came to pass that when they were all gathered together, every one to the army which he would, with their wives and their children—both men, women and children being armed with aweapons of war, having shields, and bbreastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of war—they did march forth one against another to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not.
16 And it came to pass that when it was night they were weary, and retired to their camps; and after they had retired to their camps they took up a howling and a alamentation for the loss of the slain of their people; and so great were their cries, their howlings and lamentations, that they did rend the air exceedingly.
17 And it came to pass that on the morrow they did go again to battle, and great and terrible was that day; nevertheless, they conquered not, and when the night came again they did rend the air with their cries, and their howlings, and their mournings, for the loss of the slain of their people.
18 And it came to pass that Coriantumr wrote again an epistle unto Shiz, desiring that he would not come again to battle, but that he would take the kingdom, and spare the lives of the people.
19 But behold, the aSpirit of the Lord had ceased striving with them, and bSatan had full power over the chearts of the people; for they were given up unto the hardness of their hearts, and the blindness of their minds that they might be destroyed; wherefore they went again to battle.
20 And it came to pass that they fought all that day, and when the night came they slept upon their swords.
21 And on the morrow they fought even until the night came.
22 And when the night came they were adrunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.
23 And on the morrow they fought again; and when the night came they had all fallen by the sword save it were fifty and two of the people of Coriantumr, and sixty and nine of the people of Shiz.
24 And it came to pass that they slept upon their swords that night, and on the morrow they fought again, and they contended in their might with their swords and with their shields, all that day.
25 And when the night came there were thirty and two of the people of Shiz, and twenty and seven of the people of Coriantumr.
26 And it came to pass that they ate and slept, and prepared for death on the morrow. And they were large and mighty men as to the strength of men.
27 And it came to pass that they fought for the space of three hours, and they fainted with the loss of blood.
28 And it came to pass that when the men of Coriantumr had received sufficient strength that they could walk, they were about to flee for their lives; but behold, Shiz arose, and also his men, and he swore in his wrath that he would slay Coriantumr or he would perish by the sword.
29 Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had aall fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood.
30 And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz.
31 And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and afell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.
32 And it came to pass that aCoriantumr fell to the earth, and became as if he had no life.
33 And the Lord spake unto Ether, and said unto him: Go forth. And he went forth, and beheld that the words of the Lord had all been fulfilled; and he afinished his brecord; (and the chundredth part I have not written) and he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them.
34 Now the last words which are written by aEther are these: Whether the Lord will that I be translated, or that I suffer the will of the Lord in the flesh, it mattereth not, if it so be that I am bsaved in the kingdom of God. Amen.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/ether/15
And yet the BOOK says...
Ether 14:22
And so swift and speedy was the war that there was none left to bury the dead, but they did march forth from the shedding of blood to the shedding of blood, leaving the bodies of both men, women, and children strewed upon the face of the land, to become a prey to the worms of the flesh.
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