[narses]

In response to my post:

I scrutinized the Catechism looking for those obvious “gotcha” moments where I could say, “see, not Christian!

In the Religion forum, on a thread titled The Hail Mary of a Protestant, Gamecock wrote:

Took me about 5 minutes.

Start with Mohammedans worshiping the same God. That is a good jump off point.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

Of course he had to avoid the context of that cut-n-paste to make it work.

The REST of the story:

The Church and non-Christians

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”

How is anything in that not Christian?

[CynicalBear]

Catholics serve the same god as Muslims and include pagan practices in their religion. So say the Catholic Church.

[Gamecock]

You are trying to fit two errors into one truth.

Muslims don’t worship the same God.
Those who have not received the gospel, Muslims are a good example, are not related to Christians in any way.

Two gotcha moments for the price of one.

This thought brings up a question, for any FRoman Catholic: is why do you cut Muslims more slack that Prods?

[Springfield Reformer]

and together with us they adore the one, merciful God

If this is truly Catholic belief, I want no part of it. The Islamic deity is a fraud. The god Muslims worship is basically a reimagined pre-Mohamed (cbhn) moon god that was in turn based on the remains of a meteor they used to worship in Mecca. That's why they all bow to Mecca, so they can worship their meteor. Yes, Mohamed (cbhn) dressed it all up in Abrahamic outerwear, because like any good cult leader, he had to. There were too many Jews and Christians running around to get away with something totally alien. But the underwear still stinks of idolatry. Allah is not God, nor ever can be:

Isa 42:8  I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

[daniel1212]

Start with Mohammedans worshiping the same God. That is a good jump off point. 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” Of course he had to avoid the context of that cut-n-paste to make it work. The REST of the story: The Church and non-Christians 839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.” How is anything in that not Christian?

That desperate defense is contrary to the objectivity you conveyed in your testimony, as the fact remains that the CCC plainly states that "together with us they adore the one, merciful God," and which other RCs honestly see as a real problem.

Nor can there be any reading "profess" into the latter part, which is the usual RC recourse. Or making the Muslims into those who simply worship some unknown, unnamed undefined god in contrast to a named defined deity, (Acts 17:22) but it cannot be true of Islam as a whole, which is what V2 and the CCC affirms as worshiping God. And trying to spin "adore" into something less than worship is more desperate. .

The only explanation that would only be credible would be admitting the liberal faction of V2 worked that in there, and like many conservative RCs contend. But as there is more that needs to be rejected in order to hold to saving Truth, just this rejection would only leave them as lost as before.

[Elsie]

“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims;...

Golly; narses; don't you KNOW that CHRIST was the Creator?

Don't you KNOW that Islam says GOD has no son?

Don't you KNOW that with no son, there is no Creator?

Don't you KNOW how illogical your CHOSEN churches stand on ISLAM is?