The Hail Mary of a Protestant

http://www.abouttherosary.com ^ | September 3, 2014 | Robbe Lyn Sebesta

[JPX2011]

The problem is that the Roman Catholic church says that they and the muslims worship the same God together with the Catholic church.

It’s right there in the CCC.

So is this:

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”325 (856; 63; 147)

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 “the first to hear the Word of God.”327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”;328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”329

Last time I checked the Jews don't believe in the Triune God either. Would you say they worship a different God than Christians?

Catholic Church. (2000). Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Ed., pp. 222–223). Washington, DC: United States Catholic Conference.

[NewCenturions]

Your patience amazes me! Good example of the ‘church militant’!

[metmom]

Last time I checked the Jews don't believe in the Triune God either. Would you say they worship a different God than Christians?

Nice try at avoiding the issue, but it's YOUR church and YOUR CCC that states that y'all and muzzies adore the same God.

No matter how you try to slice it, or rather INTERPRET it, it says what it says.

Y'all are stuck with it.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.."330

So the questions then become.

Are you obligated to believe it because it's in the CCC?

If you are obligated to believe it, do you?

Or do you disagree with it and run counter to the official teaching and position of the Catholic church?

Then where does that leave you? In schism?

[JPX2011]

Nice try at avoiding the issue, but it's YOUR church and YOUR CCC that states that y'all and muzzies adore the same God.

I don't think it's me that is practicing avoidance. Why can't you answer the question? Clearly that is the conclusion of the logic you bring forth.

This is what happens when the modern protestant's view of Islam is solely informed by 9/11. Like I said earlier, adolescent bluster.

As an aside, what's with all the possessive pronouns? If it's all my Church and my CCC then what is your concern? You left, did you not?

[metmom]

Then why do Catholics comment on non-Catholic issues and churches?

The number of hit pieces on Protestantism posted by Catholics causes one to wonder why you don’t ask THEM the same questions?

I’m not avoiding anything. My church did not make blanket statements about adoring the same God together with the muzzies and make it official doctrine.

I also notice that you did not answer the questions about a Catholic’s obligation to adhere to the official positions and teachings of the Catholic church.

[narses]

“My church did not make blanket statements about adoring the same God together with the muzzies and make it official doctrine.”

What Church is that?

[narses]

[metmom]

Last time I checked the Jews don't believe in the Triune God either. Would you say they worship a different God than Christians?

Sources and links?

Is that an official teaching of the Catholic church as well or your own opinion?

BTW, the Trinity can be found in the OT.

[metmom]

Yours.

Right here in the Catholic church's very own catechism of the Catholic church.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day. "330

I wouldn't want to admit to belonging to a church with so little spiritual discernment that it claims to adore, together with the muslims who want to kill them, the same God.

Since we do know that the muzzies do not worship the God of the Bible, then we can safely presume that the Catholic church does not either, since in its very own words, it states as a fact, that they adore together with the muslims, the same god.

[caww]

...” The (catholic) Church's relationship with the Muslims.

“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator,... ‘in the first place’ amongst whom are the Muslims;... these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day..”330

Looks like the integration and assimilation with Islam has begun for the catholic church....play on satan's doorstep and with certainty you shall indeed get burned!

The problem is the catholic leadership "believes" they are the ones leading this "inclusion toward the Muslim population when in fact they are being lead by another.

Islam states clearly and publically any who are not muslim are their enemy... Why is it so hard for catholics to understand who our enemy is? ....The Muslim Military uses it's own citizens to protect their military, what do catholics think they will use them for?

... When catholics don't want to know who the enemy's of God's people are, when they don't want to know Islam's psychology...how do they ever think they could defeat them when the time comes and they see Islam as it really is.... IF they ever do?

As the author of "Unveiling Islam" and other writings.....who himself spent 30 yrs. studying Islam and living in Muslims countries, himself a former Muslim, "IQ Al Rassooli" states:

..."There is no such thing as moderate Muslims. The Koran forbids Muslims from being moderate and considers any who claim to be moderate as "unbelievers..and subject to death and destruction"...... He further states...: "Calling Islam a religion and or Peaceful are two of the most egregious lies that have ever been insinuated into the human conscious."

Geert Wilder stated in his video: "Islam should never be compared to any other religion...Islam is not a religion it is a 'totalitarian political ideology' that seeks to rule every aspect of the society it infiltrates, and every part of a persons life!.... Therefore Islam should be compared with other totalitarian ideologies like Fascism and Communism.

He further stated...."all the rights to Religious Freedom do NOT apply to Islam and society needs to stop pretending Islam is a religion.

[narses]

[JPX2011]

Then why do Catholics comment on non-Catholic issues and churches?

I don't know. We are not some monolithic bloc. We're individuals with distinct charisms. For myself I only comment when the spirit moves me to do so. But I would say that non-Catholic issues/churches are inherently Catholic since their purpose of existence is to be in opposition to the Catholic Church. Ultimately there is no Protestantism without the Church.

I’m not avoiding anything. My church did not make blanket statements about adoring the same God together with the muzzies and make it official doctrine

With all due respect that is because your church is not empowered with the authority to make any doctrinal pronouncements. So it's probably for the better that they do not.

I also notice that you did not answer the questions about a Catholic’s obligation to adhere to the official positions and teachings of the Catholic church.

You answer my question about whether Jews worship the same God and I'll be happy to talk at length about the Catholic obligation to give religious assent, assent of faith to ordinary and universal magisterial teaching, etc. You don't get something for nothing.

[JPX2011]

BTW, the Trinity can be found in the OT.

Is that to say that Jews believe in Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity? Or perhaps the Jews, like Muslims, believe in the monotheistic Creator, the God of Abraham, and just do not possess the full revelation of God's nature? Have the Jews been retarded in their ability to see the Truth of the Trinity even though it is present in the OT?

[boatbums]

It took me surprise the first time as I didn’t expect anyone from Free Republic to actually be against the freedoms of others to enjoy the fruit of their own labor. It sounded like something Obama and his liberal friends might say in their “class warfare” kind of mind set. After the fifth or sixth time - I lost track - I see it as a desperate attempt to try to discount the truth of what we say by diversion. It’s kinda pathetic, really.

[caww]

....”we do know that the muzzies do not worship the God of the Bible, then we can safely presume that the Catholic church does not either, since in its very own words, it states as a fact, that they adore together with the muslims, the same god”.....

What catholics don’t see is the same Stealth Jihad taking over in government offices throughout the world...is the same Stealth Jihad entering and slithering into the churches.

This could not be happening if people really knew God’s word....not as it’s delivered to them.... but as they read, study, and understand by His Spirit guiding them... who He promised would teach us.

....”But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that “I” said to you.” (John 14:26)

“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.” (John 16:13)

When the ‘academic minds’ of Jesus’ day came to their conclusion about who He was, their pronouncement was that He was from the devil (Matthew 12:24)..... They totally ‘ignored’ the hundreds of prophecies from their own Scriptures that Jesus fulfilled.... Since the world didn’t recognize the first Comforter, Jesus, for who He was, you can’t expect it to recognize the second One, who is exactly like the first.

So Jesus told His disciples that when the Holy Spirit came, ‘the world would not accept the message any more than it did from Him’..... And He was right.

[caww]

I can always tell when certain people arrive with their silly remarks...that we’re making a strong point... that he who holds them in his grip of lies is going to fight to keep them there.

[boatbums]

I appreciate that. Sadly, some people look for ways to attack and exploit others even if it's only about something they shared personally about themselves in their profile page. I can see why some don't share anything about themselves because they can't trust the few trolls here. This is a good example of such behavior and would ordinarily be removed, but some consistently get away with it even on the Religion Forum, so I don't expect they will change. I ignore it mostly because I KNOW that their words reflect on themselves more than it does me and their "brand" of religion becomes LESS attractive. God bless you.

[narses]

“My church did not make blanket statements about adoring the same God together with the muzzies and make it official doctrine.”

What Church is that?

[JPX2011]

What catholics don’t see is the same Stealth Jihad taking over in government offices throughout the world...is the same Stealth Jihad entering and slithering into the churches.

I read my Robert Spencer. I know all about it. The Catholic Church been battling Islam for over a thousand years. The johnny come lately's of the protestant reformation looking at jihad through the prism of 9/11 aren't telling us anything we don't already know.