Does ANYONE doubt where the MORMONs get most of their stuff from???
Yup; it's ANOTHER testament of Jesus Christ!
Posted on 09/03/2014 6:36:07 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
A little six-year-old Protestant boy had often heard his Catholic companions reciting the prayer “Hail Mary.” He liked it so much that he copied it, memorized it and would recite it every day. “Look, Mommy, what a beautiful prayer,” he said to his mother one day.
“Never again say it,” answered the mother. “It is a superstitious prayer of Catholics who adore idols and think Mary a goddess. After all, she is a woman like any other. Come on, take this Bible and read it. It contains everything that we are bound to do and have to do.” From that day on the little boy discontinued his daily “Hail Mary” and gave himself more time to reading the Bible instead. One day, while reading the Gospel, he came across the passage about the Annunciation of the Angel to Our Lady. Full of joy, the little boy ran to his mother and said: “Mommy, I have found the ‘Hail Mary’ in the Bible which says: ‘Hail full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amongst women.’ Why do you call it a superstitious prayer?”
On another occasion he found that beautiful Salutation of St. Elizabeth to the Virgin Mary and the wonderful canticle MAGNIFICAT in which Mary foretold that “the generations would call her blessed.” He said no more about it to his mother but started to recite the “Hail Mary” every day as before. He felt pleasure in addressing those charming words to the Mother of Jesus, our Savior.
When he was fourteen, he one day heard a discussion on Our Lady among the members of his family. Every one said that Mary was a common woman like any other woman. The boy, after listening to their erroneous reasoning could not bear it any longer, and full of indignation, he interrupted them, saying:
“Mary is not like any other children of Adam, stained with sin. No! The Angel called her FULL OF GRACE AND BLESSED AMONGST WOMEN. Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ and consequently Mother of God. There is no higher dignity to which a creature can be raised. The Gospel says that the generations will proclaim her blessed and you are trying to despise her and look down on her. Your spirit is not the spirit of the Gospel or of the Bible which you proclaim to be the foundation of the Christian religion.”
So deep was the impression which the boy’s talk had made that his mother many times cried out sorrowfully: “Oh my God! I fear that this son of mine will one day join the Catholic religion, the religion of Popes!” And indeed, not very long afterwards, having made a serious study of both Protestantism and Catholicism, the boy found the latter to be the only true religion and embraced it and became one of its most ardent apostles.
Some time after his conversion, he met his married sister who rebuked him and said indignantly: “You little know how much I love my children. Should any one of them desire to become a Catholic, I would sooner pierce his heart with a dagger than allow him to embrace the religion of the Popes!”
Her anger and temper were as furious as those of St. Paul before his conversion. However, she would change her ways, just as St. Paul did on his way to Damascus. It so happened that one of her sons fell dangerously ill and the doctors gave up hope of recovery. Her brother then approached her and spoke to her affectionately, saying: “My dear sister, you naturally wish to have your child cured. Very well, then, do what I ask you to do. Follow me, let us pray one ‘Hail Mary’ and promise God that, if your son recovers his health, you would seriously study the Catholic doctrine, and should you come to the conclusion that Catholicism is the only true religion, you would embrace it no matter what the sacrifices may be.”
His sister was somewhat reluctant at the beginning, but as she wished for her son’s recovery, she accepted her brother’s proposal and recited the “Hail Mary” together with him. The next day her son was completely cured. The mother fulfilled her promise and she studied the Catholic doctrine. After long preparation she received Baptism together with her whole family, thanking her brother for being an apostle to her.
The story was related during a sermon given by the Rev. Fr. Tuckwell. “Brethren,” he went on and said, “the boy who became a Catholic and converted his sister to Catholicism dedicated his whole life to the service of God. He is the priest who is speaking to you now! What I am I owe to Our Lady. You, too, my dear brethren, be entirely dedicated also to Our Lady and never let a day pass without saying the beautiful prayer, ‘Hail Mary’, and your Rosary. Ask her to enlighten the minds of Protestants who are separated from the true Church of Christ founded on the Rock (Peter) and ‘against whom the gates of hell shall never prevail.’”
You know, I don't believe JR created the Religion Forum for any other reason than to be able to have a separate area for people to discuss current events that are in the religious realm. It's sad that that generosity and forethought is being disused by some to promote their brand of religion OVER others, to assert they are superior and to condemn those who will not fall in line with what their religion teaches. They use the FR RF, in essence, to intentionally bash and ridicule others by posting provocative threads that they already KNOW will cause dissension, disunity and hard feelings among other Freepers. I don't think that honors JR, Free Republic and most definitely not God. It would be nice if other Catholics exhibited such kindness and respect as you are. Blessed are the peacemakers.
Oh Steel you got defensive because of the Word of God! Apparently it hit a nerve because I simply quoted scripture.
Which one?
As I make so many...
Does ANYONE doubt where the MORMONs get most of their stuff from???
Yup; it's ANOTHER testament of Jesus Christ!
So hard for rabid Catholics to SEE the truth.
We’re the Truth because we say we are.
“Mary was a very fine woman indeed but we have no reason to believe she was deified.”
You are absolutely correct. As a Catholic I know that she is not a goddess nor is she to be treated as one.
“Does ANYONE doubt where the MORMONs get most of their stuff from???”
From the Bible, the King James Version.
Mat 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. (30) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Jer 17:5-8 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. (6) For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.
(7) Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. (8) For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.
No error on your part Elsie.
Just another in my own personal litany of mistakes and misunderstandings
When you replied about the cigar, I mistakenly thought you made the 360° comment but it was actually made by kandy atz.
Please have a blessed day today.
Again and again you keep tossing out quotes to show you are right. This is not an argument over who has “the best scholars.” That’s a straw man’s argument.
What is evident is that for two millennia every known reputable theologian has examined the fine points of not only scripture (a Bible whose books did not fall from the skies but was through the authority of the early Church) but ALSO the received oral tradition and beliefs and sacred revelation. There was no Bible for the first 60 or so years. The evangelist writers tell us that Christ did so many things that were not recorded. This is explicitly stated and yet you now contest this very authority. Don’t you see the incongruence elf all this?
Doesn’t it matter to you that even renowned Protestant theologians who have taught at major Protestant colleges and universities and written extensively on scripture for years now realize the error of their ways and have converted to Catholicism? Why is this now belittled as a vain boast?
Christ told his Apostles to go “teach” not to write down all that He said.
For example, Jesus’ commandment to the Apostles at the end of Matthew’s Gospel logically assumes the necessity of Sacred Tradition:
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age. (Matt. 28:19-20)
Jesus didn’t tell the apostles to write down everything he had taught them. He simply commanded them to teach it. Much of this teaching later made its way into Sacred Scripture, but every bit of it was and still is considered Sacred Tradition.
In fact, we know that not everything Jesus taught was eventually committed to writing. John tells us as much at the end of his Gospel: “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written” (John 21:25).
Some of Jesus’ teachings had not yet made it into written form by the date John finished writing his Gospel.
Thus the ONE single Church. There is no need for Osteens, Billy Grahams, David Koresh, Jim Jones, or corner street “Christian” pastors. These are all offshoots from the twigs that broke off the main bark. And some of these twigs are downright evil. (David Koresh, Jim Jones). This is what occurs when individuals start picking up quotes from the Bible and make it their own theology.
The boast if anything is with these individuals. Somehow, sacred tradition and ritual, a history of eminent theologians and historical scholars, saints and martyrs all got it wrong but “I” have it right! That’s what are the heretics say like Jeremiah Wright.
Hillaire Belloc the great English essayist, put it well. Unlike other heresies, he writes in his Book “Heresies,” that Protestantism spawned “a cluster of heresies.”
“What I really want to know though is why you or Steelfish expect a non-Catholic to comprehend your scriptural arguments, in light of the fact that we, as non-Catholics, are not supposed to be able to comprehend Scripture, a point which many of your number have pressed at us hard and repeatedly.”
OK, got it.
First, I am a convert, so maybe I have a useful perspective. Raised protestant, and a varied group of faith experiences growing up, but mainly Assembly of God on one side and mainstream Methodist on the other, and always with a healthy dose of Masonic “freethinking” and a very aggressive anti-Catholic flavor.
My slow conversion - a decade or more in time, involved studying the Summa, for the logic and beauty of the rational Doctor. That led to an old copy of the Baltimore Catechism.
What was I looking for? First something more understandable than the often contradictory rants that passed for sermons on one side (including the writhing in the aisles speaking in tongues, and even the odd snake or two) or the almost ascetic, intellectual and passionless sermons from the other side. All in the context of divorce, sexual immorality and hypocrisy on both sides. Second, something that actually was rooted in Christ and His Word.
Based on my upbringing, I scrutinized the Catechism looking for those obvious “gotcha” moments where I could say, “see, not Christian!” That never happened.
Still and all, the Faith and that conversion of heart that happens as a free gift from God is also a mystery. Along the path many, many things failed to make sense or seemed “wrong” even though they were actually quite Biblical (the Sacrament of Confession, as an example). Those waited for that infusion of Grace from God that was my being Born Again, my Conversion.
At that point, I understood that the Church Jesus Christ gave us was Teacher and Mother. It all made sense from that point forward, or where it did not, it was at least a Holy Mystery given to us over 2,000 years ago and protected and brought fresh and new every generation, but always His Truth.
When you study the Faith with a disposition of the Love of God, He allows you His free Gift. I pray that time comes for you and yours, as it did for me and mine.
In addition to the Summa and the Baltimore Catechism, “Mere Christianity” by CS Lewis and “Rome Sweet Home” by Scott and Kimberly Hahn are good reads.
Finally, when you want to know what the Church teaches, your best bet is to go to the source, the Catechism. FReepers are often passionate, but also often wrong, misinformed or just ignorant of the faith - like most of us.
http://www.catholiccompany.com/rome-sweet-home-i531/?aid=117
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
http://www.catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/
May you live a life of sanctity and find a happy death in the arms of Our Lord.
That was excellent,both explanatory as well as very moving,thank you!!!
sara
My pleasure.
Maybe someone said that to verga on the “Yahoo forums” he referred to before. At least that’s how I interpreted that. After all I’m pretty sure that if such a thing were said (”I’d rather abort my child then let her marry a Catholic”) such a poster would’ve been zotted here.
Forgot to ping you to 635, sorry.
I appreciate your response. It was very kind-hearted. I hope you will not take offense, but my “mileage” in growing up Protestant seems to have been way different from yours. With a few notable exceptions, I have been blessed to be in churches where Christ is magnified in both the teaching and the worship, with no shortage of the richness of God’s word.
(Note to Steelfish: Basing my assertions of faith on Scripture is a moral and spiritual obligation, and an act of worship to the Christ Who saved me. I will not soon be forsaking it, as God grants me grace to remain faithful to Him. If my use of Scripture irritates you, you may simply avoid or ignore my posts, or else show me with all candor why my use of a given passage in context is incorrect for the point I wish to establish. In any event, I wish you well.)
Narses, you mention receiving God’s gift at some point. Can I assume by that you mean a gift to understand Scripture? Or do you mean something different? The reason I ask is because Protestants also believe in receiving such gifts from God. Peter was an example. His confession of faith in Christ was not conferred on Him by learning acquired through the Jewish magisterium, but was a direct gift of God to him personally.
This is exactly how Protestants approach the understandability of Scripture. The gift of comprehension does not come to us via the magisterium. Nor logically could it. The ability to hear the truth must always precede hearing the truth. Nowhere is it taught or exampled in Scripture that the magisterium is the source of that gift. It is a direct work of God’s grace.
Which, BTW, is why it is logical for Protestants to use Scripture to certify the correctness of a given teaching. We do not presume to say whether someone presently in unbelief may be at some point blessed with that gift. So we assume it is always at least possible that when we preach the word of God, the Spirit of God may condescend to bless that preaching by opening the ears and hearts of the hearers to the meaning of His word. It’s not about “our message.” We are nothing. He is everything, and can do as he pleases among men. So we sow the seed of the word patiently, and water it faithfully, but trusting only Him to give the increase.
Again, your thoughts are well appreciated, and in the end of days, those who truly belong to Him will have no more such arguments. It is a happy time to think about.
Peace,
SR
“we, as non-Catholics, are not supposed to be able to comprehend Scripture”
Here are some guidelines for flaming:
Turn someone’s generality into an absolute. For example, if someone makes a general statement that Americans celebrate Christmas, point out that some people are Jewish and so anyone who thinks that ALL Americans celebrate Christmas is stupid. (Bonus points for accusing the person of being anti-Semitic.)
Turn someone’s factual statements into implied preferences. For example, if someone mentions that not all Catholic priests are pedophiles, accuse the person who said it of siding with pedophiles.
Turn factual statements into implied equivalents. For example, if someone says that Ghandi didn’t eat cows, accuse the person of stupidly implying that cows deserve equal billing with Gandhi.
Omit key words. For example, if someone says that people can’t eat rocks, accuse the person of being stupid for suggesting that people can’t eat. Bonus points for arguing that some people CAN eat pebbles if they try hard enough.
Assume the dumbest interpretation. For example, if someone says that he can run a mile in 12 minutes, assume he means it happens underwater and argue that no one can hold his breath that long.
Hallucinate entirely different points. For example, if someone says apples grow on trees, accuse him of saying snakes have arms and then point out how stupid that is.
Use the intellectual laziness card. For example, if someone says that ice is cold, recommend that he take graduate courses in chemistry and meteorology before jumping to stupid conclusions that display a complete ignorance of the complexity of ice.
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Now, no one has said that protestants “are not supposed to be able to comprehend Scripture.”
Certainly each protestant understands some parts of Scripture, if only because someone has explained it—just as we Catholics benefit from the explanations of those smarter and holier than we.
And certainly a protestant *could* understand as much as a Catholic, if only he weren’t locked in to erroneous interpretations, whether his own or received from someone else.
Hey...just like modern Catholics do!
Much of the text of the 1582/1610 bible employed a densely latinate vocabulary, to the extent of being in places unreadable. Consequently this translation was replaced by a revision undertaken by bishop Richard Challoner; the New Testament in three editions 1749, 1750, and 1752; the Old Testament (minus the Vulgate apocrypha), in 1750. Although retaining the title Douay–Rheims Bible, the Challoner revision was a new version, tending to take as its base text the King James Bible[4] rigorously checked and extensively adjusted for improved readability and consistency with the Clementine edition of the Vulgate. Subsequent editions of the Challoner revision, of which there have been very many, reproduce his Old Testament of 1750 with very few changes. Challoner's New Testament was, however, extensively revised by Bernard MacMahon in a series of Dublin editions from 1783 to 1810. These Dublin versions are the source of some Challoner bibles printed in the United States in the 19th century. Subsequent editions of the Challoner Bible printed in England most often follow Challoner's earlier New Testament texts of 1749 and 1750, as do most 20th-century printings and on-line versions of the Douay–Rheims bible circulating on the internet.
Awesome reply! Thanks.
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