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To: daniel1212; boatbums; redleghunter

So does this mean that the Lord’s return awaits His recognition by all Israel as a particular entity, after the full number of the Gentiles has come in (distinguishing the two). because a particular hardening has come upon part of the Jews

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the question puts the cart before the horse, it appears to indicate there is an entity called Israel that exists and then at some point recognizes the Lord.

“Israel” is a person, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself is Israel.
all human beings are born with original sin and a sin nature, therefore they are separated from God and unless they are regenerated, born again they will die in their sin and be eternally separated from God. these people are in Satan’s kingdom.
the elect, whether born in OT or NT, whether Jew or Gentile, become Israel, that is they are placed “In Christ”, when they are regenerated, baptized into Christ , grafted into the olive tree, become part of the one flock.
these are in the kingdom of his beloved Son.

so when Paul says “ so all Israel will be saved “, this can only refer to all those in Christ, all those who have been regenerated , all those added to the Church who are being saved ( Acts 2:47 )
anyone who rejects Jesus, who denies Jesus is the Christ, is called the anti-Christ in 1 John 2:22. to hear such people today be referred to as “Israel” by people calling themselves Christian is foreign to true Christianity.

once someone is added to Israel, they are no longer Greek, or Swedish or Irish or Jewish, but they are a new creature, one in Christ.
if someone is not in Israel, it doesn’t matter if their nationality is German, Arab, Chinese, Jewish or Nigerian, they are enemies of God since their sins have not been forgiven.
all through history, a certain number of those with Jewish DNA have come to faith in Jesus and have become part of Israel. the large majority have not however.
God is very well aware of who the elect are and who are not. once the full number of elect Gentiles and elect Jews are in the ark, there will be a shout of the archangel, the trump will sound and Jesus will return as King and Judge.


151 posted on 09/02/2014 7:36:14 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
it appears to indicate there is an entity called Israel that exists and then at some point recognizes the Lord....so when Paul says “ so all Israel will be saved “, this can only refer to all those in Christ,

I agree with the latter, but "so all Israel will be saved" refers to God reversing the curse of blindness, the hardening that has come upon part of the Israel of Rm. 11:25, and thus they believe and become part of the Israel of God.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Romans 11:25-26)

That unbelieving (in Christ) Jews today need to be saved, and are not part of the Israel of God is not in dispute by me.

But it is the full inclusion of the Jews in the Lord's salvation, in the wake of the full number of the Gentiles entering in, so that the hardening that has come upon part of Israel is removed, that i am referring to, but which secondary Israel and a special turning of them to the Lord is what you seem to deny.

162 posted on 09/02/2014 8:22:51 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Confusion of this magnitude would spam the thread to death to demolish.

No one would even take the time to read it.


164 posted on 09/02/2014 8:26:15 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; daniel1212; boatbums; redleghunter
once someone is added to Israel, they are no longer ... Jewish

I will let my posts speak for themselves. Someone who thinks Catholics keep the 10 commandments instead of the law of Christ, might not be the best judge of who a Catholic is. after all, Exodus 20:8-11 forbids working on the 7th day, our Saturday. when was the last time you heard any Catholic Bishop condemn Catholic major league ball players from playing on Saturday?
    Such comments are contrary to the Catechism of the Catholic Church as well as the Scriptures.
  1. Since the Ascension Christ's coming in glory has been imminent,566 even though "it is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority."567. This eschatological coming could be accomplished at any moment, even if both it and the final trial that will precede it are "delayed".568 674 The glorious Messiah's coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by "all Israel", for "a hardening has come upon part of Israel" in their "unbelief" toward Jesus.569 St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old."570 St. Paul echoes him: "For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"571 The "full inclusion" of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of "the full number of the Gentiles",572 will enable the People of God to achieve "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ", in which "God may be all in all".573
  2. The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

166 posted on 09/02/2014 8:35:13 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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