Posted on 08/24/2014 10:55:16 AM PDT by wmfights
Except you haven't refuted ANYTHING! Your OWN false doctrines have been refuted continuously since you first made a peep on these Millennial Series threads. Does your Bible have Ezekial in it? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezekial+16&version=KJV. The Lord God speaks of Israel as His wife there and the sins "she" was guilty of by whoring after false gods. Do you have Jeremiah 3? Read that https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=jeremiah+3&version=KJV. Verse 20 says, "Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the Lord." Did you read Jeremiah 31, or is that not in your Bible? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=jeremiah+31&version=KJV
Did you read Hosea like I suggested? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=hosea+2&version=KJV. How about Isaiah 50? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah+50&version=KJV. The restoration of Israel as Jehovah’s Wife is also described in Isaiah 54:1-8, and the remarriage is further described in Isaiah 62:4-5. Hosea, who had much to say about the adulteries of Israel, also spoke of Israel’s reunion with her husband. Therefore, the wife of Jehovah and the bride of Christ ARE two separate entities. Something you have YET to acknowledge or explain how they aren't. Imagining yourself an instructor explaining the Trinity and the nature of Almighty God to those of us who never doubted NOR questioned that, only shows more hubris on your part. Don't think an abundance of words can disguise that!
It serves no purpose to continue to discuss a subject with someone who has NO inclination to examine if his doctrine is true or not. To assert he believes the Bible but then pretends vast portions of it are inconsequential, only shows hypocrisy and I have NO desire to spin my wheels or take my time re-re-re-explaining the same thing. There IS no escaping the truth that Israel IS called the "wife of Jehovah" and the church is the "bride of Christ". Deal with it and just maybe you can begin to understand God's purposes and plans for the nation of Israel (He's NOT done with her yet). God does not renege on His everlasting and unconditional promises. To think He does, only shows a total lack of trust in Him.
Close but no cigar - Two wives... The house of Israel, and the House of Judah.
One received a Divorcement (the House of Israel)
Jer 3:7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
See Judah compared to Israel?
Judah was not divorced... Notice, 'put away', not divorced.
Isa 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.
[...]
Isa 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
Isa 52:2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.
Isa 52:3 For thus saith the LORD, Ye have sold yourselves for nought; and ye shall be redeemed without money.
Isa 52:4 For thus saith the Lord GOD, My people went down aforetime into Egypt to sojourn there; and the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.
Isa 52:5 Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed.
Isa 52:6 Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.
Isaiah 54...Right after 53 where Messiah is crucified... Who is the barren woman?
Isa 54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
Isa 54:2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
Isa 54:3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
Isa 54:4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
She can only be one entity - The House of Israel. Y'all are missing half the story...
And lastly Hosea, written specifically to the House of Israel where YHWH promises to remarry her and predicts her paths... but how can He without breaking His own Torah? For she had slept with other gods during her divorcement. This is a HUGE question, answered in Romans 7.
No, there is no doubt. YHWH has two wives, and neither one is named Mary. It is her context in the House of David, and in the house of Judah that she was chosen. Judah bears a Son from the House of David. That is why Judah weeps for her firstborn in Zech 12:10... Him whom they have pierced... That is why Judah necessarily remained married.
So does this mean that the Lord's return awaits His recognition by all Israel as a particular entity, after the full number of the Gentiles has come in (distinguishing the two). because a particular hardening has come upon part of the Jews?
Where did someone deny Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord or lords
post #28
1. if I missed four questions posed to me, it certainly wasn’t by design. anyone is free to pose them again if they still wish an answer.
2. re reconciling Matthew 24 with Revelation. telling someone to read Matthew 25 is not an answer. Matthew 25 makes no mention of any 1,000 year reign, does it?
Matthew 24 is exceedingly clear and lines up perfectly with 2 Peter and 1 Corinthians 15, when Jesus returns it is the end of the world. notice Matthew 24:29, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not shed its light and the stars will fall from heaven.....” this verse tells us the Church is on earth during the tribulation and before the so called “rapture”, the sun is darkened. Why? Time has ended, it is the day of the Lord, Judgement Day. There can not be any 1,000 year reign after this, the earth is destroyed and there is no light from the sun. where do we see this so called millennial reign in either Matthew 24 or 25?
3. I asked you to define Israel in Romans 11:26 using the literal historical method you said you use.
ok, ready folks.......here is the answer “It’s defined by Paul as Israel and not church”
brilliant!! Israel is defined as Israel and not church.
Lol, it’s as if I asked someone to define what an apple is and what told “it’s an apple and not a pear”
you then mention the OT speaks of a faithful remnant.
my question is, faithful to what? Acts 4:12 “and there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved”
2 Peter 3:10 speaks of the day of the Lord, which is the same day as described in Matthew 25. once the Judgement is complete, “and then” indicates the earth will destroyed immediately after Matthew 25 concludes.
there is no literal 1,000 year reign described in either book.
I have the chapters in Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Hosea and Isaiah and you know what I did not find?
anywhere in those 4 books where it states the Father has a wife. you know why it doesn’t say that in those 4 books? Because the Father doesn’t have a wife and never did.
As I explained, Christians interpret the OT in light of what we find in the NT.
in the NT, we find “NO ONE” can come to the Father except through Jesus.
in John 10, Jesus says “I know MY own and MY own know me”
in Matthew 1:21 it says “ and you shall his name Jesus , for He will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins.
in Revelation, we see the New Jerusalem, but no mention of any wife of the Father, do we?
no, this dispensational invention that Israel and the Church are two separate and distinct entities is totally un-Scriptural and not believed by anyone before Darby came along.
there are religions out there that teach man can approach a Holy God on their own righteousness, but not Christianity.
Christianity alone says all men have sinned and are out of fellowship with a Holy God and there is nothing man can do about it. But God loved us so much, that He Himself provided the remedy for sin, a perfect sacrifice in the death of His Son. so only when someone is “in Christ”, do they have peace with God because Christ is the mediator between God and man. this proves the Father can not have a wife, because the only way God reconciles man to Himself is through His Son.
I wouldn’t be so quick to call 2,000 years of Christian teaching “false doctrine”, especially when the SCRIPTURES specifically say in the latter days many false teachers will arise and fool many. and how true that statement is, all one need do is open your eyes and look around.
I would suggest interpreting the OT by the NT, NOT the other way around.
Jesus says in John 10, “ so there shall be ONE FLOCK and ONE SHEPHERD”
I provided the latter portion of Matthew 25 for a reason. It speaks of Christ judging on earth. From His Throne. Don’t think the earth is melted yet given the nations gather before Him. So Matthew 24-25 does not indicate the future account as witnessed by Peter in 2 Peter 3:10. Of course that will happen as Revelation 21 indicates.
For several posts across three threads in this series no one has asserted there is another path to salvation. Their is only One through Jesus Christ. The remnant of Israel will weep the One they pierced and call upon His Name.
You might want to cross reference Matthew 24 use of “Coming of the Son of Man” with other NT and OT references. In both testaments there are several events to happen on the Day of the Lord. Melting everything is just one.
That is unless you don’t see OT prophecies yet to be fulfilled as irrelevant.
So does this mean that the Lord’s return awaits His recognition by all Israel as a particular entity, after the full number of the Gentiles has come in (distinguishing the two). because a particular hardening has come upon part of the Jews
__________________
the question puts the cart before the horse, it appears to indicate there is an entity called Israel that exists and then at some point recognizes the Lord.
“Israel” is a person, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself is Israel.
all human beings are born with original sin and a sin nature, therefore they are separated from God and unless they are regenerated, born again they will die in their sin and be eternally separated from God. these people are in Satan’s kingdom.
the elect, whether born in OT or NT, whether Jew or Gentile, become Israel, that is they are placed “In Christ”, when they are regenerated, baptized into Christ , grafted into the olive tree, become part of the one flock.
these are in the kingdom of his beloved Son.
so when Paul says “ so all Israel will be saved “, this can only refer to all those in Christ, all those who have been regenerated , all those added to the Church who are being saved ( Acts 2:47 )
anyone who rejects Jesus, who denies Jesus is the Christ, is called the anti-Christ in 1 John 2:22. to hear such people today be referred to as “Israel” by people calling themselves Christian is foreign to true Christianity.
once someone is added to Israel, they are no longer Greek, or Swedish or Irish or Jewish, but they are a new creature, one in Christ.
if someone is not in Israel, it doesn’t matter if their nationality is German, Arab, Chinese, Jewish or Nigerian, they are enemies of God since their sins have not been forgiven.
all through history, a certain number of those with Jewish DNA have come to faith in Jesus and have become part of Israel. the large majority have not however.
God is very well aware of who the elect are and who are not. once the full number of elect Gentiles and elect Jews are in the ark, there will be a shout of the archangel, the trump will sound and Jesus will return as King and Judge.
I deal with this in post #146. both Matthew 24 and 2 Peter agree, when Jesus returns, it is the last day.
If you want to promote false doctrine, that is on your head.
false doctrine? I asked who Israel is, since Romans 11 says all Israel will be saved.
your answer was the 12 tribes.
apparently you don’t want to defend that answer, I don’t blame you.
if someone is a member of one of the 12 tribes, but deny Jesus is the Christ, they are Israel? who is promoting false doctrine?
Romans 11 precisely addresses the issue.
Your attempts to misquote God are foolish.
Jesus Christ mentions the earth melting?
3 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the Lord. 2 Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness. 3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed. 4 Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My father, thou art the guide of my youth? 5 Will he reserve his anger for ever? will he keep it to the end? Behold, thou hast spoken and done evil things as thou couldest. 6 The Lord said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. 7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. 9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. 10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the Lord. 11 And the Lord said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah. 12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the Lord; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever. 13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord. 14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: 15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. 16 And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the Lord: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. 17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart. 18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers. 19 But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me. 20 Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the Lord. 21 A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the Lord their God. 22 Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the Lord our God. 23 Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the Lord our God is the salvation of Israel. 24 For shame hath devoured the labour of our fathers from our youth; their flocks and their herds, their sons and their daughters. 25 We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the Lord our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God.
Romans 11:14 “in order to make my fellow Jews jealous and thus save SOME of them”
Romans 11:26 “ and so ALL Israel will be saved”
hmm, v14 says “Some” and v26 says “all”.
clearly the 12 tribes can’t be Israel.
care to elaborate on where I am “misquoting” God?
the Word of God says the earth will be burned up.
hopefully you accept 2 Peter as the Word of God.
truly in the Lord our God is the salvation of Israel
Who is the salvation of Israel?
hint: it is not God the Father.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.