Posted on 08/19/2014 7:33:43 PM PDT by markomalley
There is a great deal of confusion in the Church today as to whether or not Muslims worship the same God as do we. In fact many prelates, including our own Cardinal McCarrick, either are honestly confused about the matter or they exploit general confusion so that they may appear to be "ecumenical". Indeed, nine years ago at Catholic University His Eminence addressed some Muslim dignitaries; in that address he invoked "allah" three times but he gave not one mention to Jesus Christ. That address, which can be called de facto idolatry, is here.
Cardinal McCarrick and other devotees of ecumenicide often cite Lumen Gentium and the Catechism as their authorities. They are misreading those church documents. A few weeks ago Dr. Taylor Marshall posted an article that addressed this question. I link to it now; it's worth careful study. He points out that the Church documents state that the Muslims profess to worship the God of Abraham, and profess to hold faith in Him.
It's one thing to profess to worship God. It can be quite another to worship God in fact. Here's an example of this occurrence. We've all heard Nancy Pelosi's protestations of being a "good faithful Catholic". This is the same Pelosi who went on a rampage when her bishop upheld traditional marriage. This is the same Pelosi who was honored at Planned Parenthood's gala in March and said that" to be associated with the great Margaret Sanger is a distinct privilege" (she may well "enjoy that privilege" for all eternity if she doesn't repent, but I digress). She also believes Hamas to be a "humanitarian organization". So Pelosi may think she's a great Catholic, but reality indicates otherwise. Similarly, Muslims think they worship the God of Abraham but their actions indicate otherwise. The more vociferous Muslims state that we don't worship the same deity (more than we can say for Cardinal McCarrick); they just don't accept that they are the ones worshiping a false idol - if not actual demons.
Below is a video of Muslim jihadists burying alive opponents. This action (among so many others) is evidence that these monsters do NOT worship the One True God. Parents - you may wish to keep your small children from seeing this.
From Merriam-Webster:
>>Full Definition of ADORE
transitive verb
1
: to worship or honor as a deity or as divine<<
From the Baltimore Catechism:
>>I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them.<<
From Lumen Gentium:
>>...and together with us [Catholics] they [moose limbs] adore the one, merciful God,...<<
It is amazing it takes a former RC to provide what the text actually says, which is missing in the DC RC spin, for V2 and the CCC does not merely say the Muslims profess to worship the God of Abraham, but it affirms that "together with us they adore the one, merciful God..."
There can be no reading "profess" into the latter part. They would only be credible by admitting the liberal faction of V2 worked that in there, and be like the sedevacantists in rejecting that council as authoritative. But as there is more that needs to be rejected in order to hold to saving Truth, just this rejection would only leave them as lost as before.
No, it goes on to explain what “adore” supposedly means in this circumstance. I can’t roll my eyes hard enough.
Indeed:
They shoot their arrow in the right direction (toward the “God of Abraham”), but they do not understand the target and their bow is too weak because their bow lacks the power of grace.
That could be true of a honest seeker who did not buy all the Muslim theology, or like some unnamed undefined god in contrast to a named defined deity, (Acts 17:22) but it cannot be true of Islam as a whole, which is what V2 and the CCC affirms as worshiping God.
For Islam actually denies the God of the Bible as being the one true God, contradicting Him in history, covenant and promises, and means of salvation, denying "God manifest in the flesh," and even His death and resurrection, among other things .
This is not a matter of misunderstanding the God of Abraham, but that of creating another God which makes the God of the Bible to be the misunderstanding. Thus Muslims need to repent of worshiping Allah in order to be saved, like as Paul commanded other pagans:
And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: (Acts 14:15)
On the practical level.
Or would you have any problem in Bible times explaining kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, and as having Divine powers and glory, and making offerings and beseeching such for Heavenly help, directly accessed by mental prayer.
Moses, put down those rocks! I was only engaging in hyper dulia, not adoring her. Can't you tell the difference?
Actually, they claim that the Bible has been corrupted and originally taught their doctrine.
denying "God manifest in the flesh," and even His death and resurrection
Judaism certainly denies all of those things.
Keep in mind that the magisterium has no charism to teach the doctrines of a religion other than Catholicism. So any assertion they make about "what Muslims teach" or "what Muslims believe" cannot be authoritative in any definitive sense. (Muslims, after all, are the authority on what Muslims believe, not Catholics.)
The assertion that Muslims profess to adore the God of Abraham is about as far as the Vatican Council can press the issue, and even that assertion is only as good as the Muslims wish to make it.
Substitute the word "Protestant" for "Muslim" in the above and you'll find the lie in that apologetic.
The Catholic leadership , and on their vatican website, appeals to the New Age Spirituality in the language they use of “Oneness”. As well as other verbiage which unites the movement and other faiths within the Catholic faith as “all”.
God never includes “ALL” ...The God of the Bible is a God of distinctions, the catholic church has lost sight of those distinctions....and the church has lost sight of why that is so ....rather it's playing into the 'Universal' push which is inclusive of all religions worshipping the same God....which they don't. The leadership is doing this because they desire 'to lead' this agenda and have the power at the head of the representation which forms as the NWO shapes up.
....”Why so difficult for Educated, Lofty, Ordained, and Powerful Religious and Political Leaders to figure this out?”.....
Jesus let us know this would come.....where “they” would believe they were doing God a service....(such as accepting Islam and other religions as having the same God)...and He told us they do this because they haven’t know Him nor the Father.
So they are blinded from the truth because they do not know Him....and believe a lie.
...”The assertion that Muslims profess to adore the God of Abraham is about as far as the Vatican Council can press the issue”......
But Muslims don’t worship the God of the Bible....so the Vatican Council has already gone to far. Therefore by doing so they’ve agreed with the Muslim’s statements....which we know what God says about such agreements.
Really good point! There are many Traditionalist Catholics who cling to the dogma of extra Ecclesiam nulla salus which means: "outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation", to also include all the Protestant, or not-Catholic Christian denominations as well as the Eastern Orthodox. That is why so many flip out over Vatican II's Lumen Gentium, which softened ("reformulated positively") that language and allows the possibility that people CAN be saved outside of being formally Roman Catholic. Even Muslims and atheists are included:
So, even non-theists, pagans and any other non-Christian believers can still be saved as long as they are "being good" and trying to live a good life according to their own consciences. That nullifies God's own word that states there is NO salvation outside of faith in Jesus Christ - no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved! Quite a conundrum!
They certainly do NOT worship the God of Abraham...Jesus Christ is the God of Abraham...Muzlims do not worship Jesus/God...
That is the only possible explanation. :-)
The whole Ferguson Thing is also an amazing example of how people can believe a lie, even when the truth is presented in all its obviousness.
Ok, that made me laugh. Good one.
The assertion that Muslims profess to adore the God of Abraham is about as far as the Vatican Council can press the issue, and even that assertion is only as good as the Muslims wish to make it.
I'm not sure how to take this post of yours. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you sincerely believe this is what the Church teaches. The problem is this is not what the Catechism/Vatican II states. It doesn't state that they "profess to adore". It states that "they adore". Two very different things, my friend.
It certainly went too far: it contradicts pre-VII Catholic teaching that calls Islam a diabolical religion. How did the Catholic Church go from describing Islam as an abomination to a religion where we both adore the same God? Probably when the Catholic Church turned into the PC-Church.
Perhaps the author of the blog and/or Dr. Taylor Marshall would like to explain what definition of “abomination” or “diabolical” those previous popes and saints were using at the time. I’m sure they’ll employ similar mental gymnastics they used with the word “adore”.
But it went beyond that. Finish reading the statement out of the CCC.
Here it is again......
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims."The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330
About the only thing correct in that statement is that muslims profess to worship the God of Abraham. Everything else is so wrong.
The Catholic church right here in their own words states that they adore the same God.
Salvation is found through Jesus Christ, and none other. Peter says that there is no other name under heaven by which me MUST be saved. (Acts 4:12)
It's not simply a matter of acknowledging the Creator.
And in first place is the MUSLIMS?
Not the Jews who DO worship the same God, the God of the OT?
And before non-Catholic Christians who also DO worship the God of the Bible and profess faith in Jesus?
In first place is the muslims, who the church fought in the Crusades? The same ones who hack off people's heads for not converting to islam? The same ones who fly planes into buildings in the name of Allah?
That same God?
Will you wake up and actually READ what your church is saying and think it through yourself instead of believing what you are told to believe? What has been *interpreted* for you?
There is no Saint Mohammad...
What actual Saints say about islam is very telling. (there is a post on FR with their quotes.)
The Jews are discussed in an earlier paragraph. I agree the catechism is a disaster but in this case you're barking up the wrong tree, the muslims are the first among the heathen to be discussed.
That’s not what it says.
That’s not what it says.
There’s a difference between what the CCC actually says and what Catholics say it means.
Instead of going by the *interpretation* offered by the church to excuse what is said, maybe the someone just ought to take a good hard look at what is really being said.
The only ones who *know* what is *really meant* are those Catholics who have been told otherwise by their church. The rest of the world, with good reading comprehension, takes the words written down and validated by the RCC itself, at face value.
If what is said isn’t what is meant, then it behooves someone in the RCC to rewrite it so it actually reflects what they mean, instead of just going around telling everyone else they’re wrong.
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