Posted on 07/29/2014 4:47:36 PM PDT by ebb tide
A priest looking for advice on how to advance the Church in a fast-paced world so often embroiled in conflict recently approached a well-placed cleric who had been a religious order priest and bishop for many years. In response, the bishop answered, in part, by sharing the following true story:
A priest went as a missionary to an area where for years they had no priest, and evangelicals had arrived. He told me that he went to a woman who had been the teacher of the people and then the principle of the village school.
This lady sat him down and began to insult him forcefully saying, “You abandoned us, left us alone, and I, who in need of God’s Word, had to go to Protestant worship and I became Protestant.”
This young priest, who is meek, who is one who prays, when the woman finished her discourse, said, “Madam, just one word: forgiveness. Forgive us, forgive us. We abandoned the flock.”
The tone of the woman changed. However, she remained Protestant and the priest did not go into the argument of which was the true religion. In that moment, you could not do this. In the end, the lady began to smile and said, “Father, would you like some coffee?”
“Yes, let’s have a coffee,” he replied.
Afterwards, when the priest was about to leave, she said, “Stop here, Father. Come.”
And she led him into the bedroom, opened the closet and there was the image of Our Lady.
“You should know that I never abandoned her. I hid her because of the pastor, but she’s in the home,” the lady said.
It is a story which teaches how proximity, meekness brought about this woman’s reconciliation with the Church, because she felt abandoned by the Church.
And I asked a question of this priest that you should never ask, “And then, how did things turn out? How did things finish?”
But the priest corrected me, saying, “Oh, no, I did not ask anything; she continues to go to Protestant worship, but you can see that she is a woman who prays. She faces the Lord Jesus.” And it did not go beyond that. He did not invite her to return to the Catholic Church.
What is one to make of this “advice” and the bishop giving it? Three things can be said with certainty:
1) This bishop has a very twisted understanding of what it means to be reconciled with the Church. In his mind, a woman who hides her supposed devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary for fear of rebuke from a heretic “pastor,” and who is steadfast in “worshiping” in a heretical community, has undergone a “reconciliation with the Church” presumably because she set her anger aside long enough to have a cup of coffee with a Catholic priest.
2) This bishop has a deficient understanding of the Church’s mission. His inquisitor has been given to believe that priestly work is well done apart from inviting heretics to return to the Catholic Church and the sacraments. He furthermore has been given to believe that he can determine on his own that one outside the Church, with no possibility of being absolved from his or her sins “faces the Lord,” the presumption being that such a person is fine where they are; outside of the solitary Ark of Salvation.
3) This bishop is the current Bishop of Rome; a pope who has demonstrated time and time again an appalling lack of concern for even the most basic duties of his exalted office.
The story above was shared by Pope Francis during a Q&A session with the priests of Caserta that took place on July 26th; it’s just one of a number of things said that day by a Roman Pontiff whose prolific public discourse so often betrays his indifference to the Catholic faith. You may read the exchange in its fullness on the Vatican News website linked above, but be forewarned, it is a gut wrenching experience.
Clearly, the priests of Caserta would have done far better to email their questions to just about any commenter on this blog. (Small compliment, I know.)
I don't know...
It could be claimed that Rome has it's OWN Obama!!!
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/03/27/pope-francis-seems-reluctant-to-be-pope-preferring-title-bishop-rome-in-hint/
Oh???
Romans 13:1
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
From elsie, edited:
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That is honest, and "DOCTRINAL COMMENTARY ON THE CONCLUDING FORMULA OF THE PROFESSIO FIDEI" (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) states,
The Magisterium of the Church, however, teaches a doctrine to be believed as divinely revealed (first paragraph) or to be held definitively (second paragraph) with an act which is either defining or non-defining. In the case of a defining act, a truth is solemnly defined by an "ex cathedra" pronouncement by the Roman Pontiff or by the action of an ecumenical council. In the case of a non-defining act, a doctrine is taught infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium of the Bishops dispersed throughout the world who are in communion with the Successor of Peter.
With regard to the nature of the assent owed to the truths set forth by the Church as divinely revealed (those of the first paragraph) or to be held definitively (those of the second paragraph), it is important to emphasize that there is no difference with respect to the full and irrevocable character of the assent which is owed to these teachings. The difference concerns the supernatural virtue of faith: in the case of truths of the first paragraph, the assent is based directly on faith in the authority of the Word of God (doctrines de fide credenda); in the case of the truths of the second paragraph, the assent is based on faith in the Holy Spirit's assistance to the Magisterium and on the Catholic doctrine of the infallibility of the Magisterium (doctrines de fide tenenda).
With regard to those truths connected to revelation by historical necessity and which are to be held definitively, but are not able to be declared as divinely revealed, the following examples can be given: the legitimacy of the election of the Supreme Pontiff or of the celebration of an ecumenical council, the canonizations of saints (dogmatic facts), the declaration of Pope Leo XIII in the Apostolic Letter Apostolicae Curae on the invalidity of Anglican ordinations. - http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFADTU.HTM
Trying to argue with an entity that sees itself as a country and with various ruling parties overseeing it, to that of their naive membership who 'believe' they are active members of a religion, is fruitless....or the matters among would have been settled long ago...they aren't. As I see it the Reformation pretty much settled the matter, but you cannot make someone see what they don't, and will not see as truth, when they have opted for something else and 'believe' IN IT.
What one "Believes" they are a part of is very different then simply being a part of.
Isn't your Catechism something "faithful" Catholics must obey and receive? We often hear the accusations against non-Catholic Christians of engaging in YOPIOS (your own personal interpretation of Scripture). How is this NOT what Catholics also seem to do with their ecumenical, conciliar "Dogmatic Constitutions" that resulted from these exercises?
How is rationalizing that a Pope is only infallible under certain conditions excuse the assertions from Catholics that he is STILL supposed to be the leader of all Christendom, the "rightful" successor to St. Peter and, in order to gain salvation, we all must be subject to him? Would you have submitted yourself to a Pope like Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia)? And, if not, would you not have been found in schism?
Vatican I taught -- infallibly -- that the Pope is only infallible under certain conditions. (Decree: Pastor Aeternus) No "rationalization" is required; it's clearly spelled out.
I think you have missed my point. Regardless of when the Pope is "infallible" - and I do not concede that he is - ALL faithful Catholics are mandated to be in subjection and obey the Pontiff as he is in persona Christi (in the person of Christ). From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_persona_Christi:
Bishops of Vatican Council II (1964)2: 28. … Priests, although they do not possess the highest degree of the priesthood, and although they are dependent on the bishops in the exercise of their power, nevertheless they are united with the bishops in sacerdotal dignity. By the power of the sacrament of Orders, in the image of Christ the eternal high Priest, they are consecrated to preach the Gospel and shepherd the faithful and to celebrate divine worship, so that they are true priests of the New Testament. Partakers of the function of Christ the sole Mediator, on their level of ministry, they announce the divine word to all. They exercise their sacred function especially in the eucharistic worship or the celebration of the Mass by which acting in the person of Christ… 29. At a lower level of the hierarchy are deacons, upon whom hands are imposed “not unto the priesthood, but unto a ministry of service”.
Pope Paul VI (1967)3: 29. … acting in the person of Christ, the priest unites himself most intimately with the offering, and places on the altar his entire life, which bears the marks of the holocaust.
Pope John Paul II (1980)4: 8. The priest offers the holy Sacrifice in persona Christi… Awareness of this reality throws a certain light on the character and significance of the priest celebrant who, by confecting the holy Sacrifice and acting “in persona Christi,” is sacramentally (and ineffably) brought into that most profound sacredness, and made part of it, spiritually linking with it in turn all those participating in the eucharistic assembly.
Typical Version of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1997)5: 875: … No one can bestow grace on himself; it must be given and offered. This fact presupposes ministers of grace, authorized and empowered by Christ. From him, bishops and priests receive the mission and faculty (“the sacred power”) to act in persona Christi Capitis; deacons receive the strength to serve the people of God in the diaconia of liturgy, word, and charity, in communion with the bishop and his presbyterate. The ministry in which Christ's emissaries do and give by God's grace what they cannot do and give by their own powers, is called a “sacrament” by the Church's tradition. Indeed, the ministry of the Church is conferred by a special sacrament.”
Pope Benedict XVI (2007)6: Celebrating the Chrism Mass on Holy Thursday with the priests of Rome, Pope Benedict XVI said that priests should prepare themselves thoroughly to celebrate Mass and administer the sacraments, remembering that they act in the person of Christ.
Code of Canon Law (1983)7 as modified by Benedict XVI (2009)8: Can. 1008 By divine institution, some of the Christian faithful are marked with an indelible character and constituted as sacred ministers by the sacrament of holy orders. They are thus consecrated and deputed so that, each according to his own grade, they may serve the People of God by a new and specific title. Can. 1009 §1. The orders are the episcopate, the presbyterate, and the diaconate. §2. They are conferred by the imposition of hands and the consecratory prayer which the liturgical books prescribe for the individual grades. §3. Those who are constituted in the order of the episcopate or the presbyterate receive the mission and capacity to act in the person of Christ the Head, whereas deacons are empowered to serve the People of God in the ministries of the liturgy, the word and charity. The change in Canon Law introduced by Ominum in Mentum resolved a discrepancy between the applicability of in persona Christi Capitis (“in the person of Christ the Head”) to deacons as well as priests and bishops. With the new Motu Proprio, in persona Christi Capitis applies only to priests and bishops.
If such power and authority is given to priests and bishops, how much more the leader, the Pope? As we have seen discussed the last year since the new Pope Francis was named, there is dismay expressed by some Roman Catholics over his seeming liberal bent. No doubt, this is not the first time the head of the Catholic church has caused questions and his actions bring doubt. Yet, ALL Christians are supposed to be in subjection to him - at least that's what past popes have "infallibly" stated. When Vat I taught that dogma, NOBODY qualified its meaning as only being applicable to ex cathedra conditions but everything he declares is to be obeyed. Catholics aren't supposed to use their own personal interpretations in this case.
No matter how much Jeremiah pleaded with the Jews, they didn't want to listen to a word he had to say. They didn't care. They felt they could worship God just the way they wanted to. They were very ecumenical. He was a disruptor.
They were surprised.
It was a command directed towards St. John.
Next question?
Is the “Glory be the Father, Son and Holy Ghost...” prayer just a statement, also?
If not, how do the two prayers differ? They are both salutations.
Joh 19:26-27 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! (27) Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.So was he telling Mary to pray to John? Nope. The only explicit command is to look. She is to look at John as her son, and John is to look at her as his mother. Though he had half-brothers, Jesus was the oldest son of Mary, and so was obligated to ensure Mary was cared for, seeing that Joseph was no longer there. That he does so, even as He is dying a horrible death on our behalf, testifies to His sincere and natural righteousness. It simply was (and is) His innermost nature to always do what is right and good.
Joh 20:26-29 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. (27) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.You see, though the traditions of men have muddied the waters and confused many concerning the proper worship of God, in the Scriptures it is clear. No one is ever worshiped or prayed to righteously but God.
Oops! Meant to ping you to #54
That measly 167 rule list is peanuts! ;o)
Indeed:
Ecc 5:1-3 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil. (2) Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few. (3) For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words.
Peace,
SR
Good Scripture!
There are friends I have that know me so well that my intentions,emotions,needs and wants need very little words to convey.I might over explain myself to them on occasion but they're usually nodding after the first few words because they know me and my situation and have done for a long time.It seems the more intimate the relationship the less words need to be used.There's a great comfort and sometimes even fear in being known that well.
Then there is God with whom NOTHING is hidden and ALL is known.How many words would God need to hear? I sometimes think that many words simply repeated over and over again are almost an insult to the relationship.A relationship so intense with love that He laid down His life for our sakes.
God less you both for your posts
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