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Flame war and childishness |
Posted on 07/14/2014 9:20:18 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
To my Protestant brothers and sisters:
It's time to come back to Mother Church. We want you, we need you, we love you.
I've spent a lot of time in dialogue with activist atheists recently, and the direction we are going is not pretty. We are witnessing a rapid cultural decline into amorality.
Satan seeks the ruin of souls through the destruction of marriage and family, and the quickest route to his goal is the profanation of sex. The truth and meaning of human sexuality is our era's cultural fault line, and unfortunately, Protestant denominations have been tumbling into its widening crevace at an alarming pace.
The first cracks denying the sacred nature of human sexuality began mere decades ago with the first tentative acceptance of contraception by a Christian church (the Anglicans). After 1,900+ years of unbroken Christian teaching on the immorality of contraception (including 400+ years of unbroken Protestant teaching), a moral evil was suddenly declared good. The entirety of Protestantism, although horrified at first, soon followed suit.
"Woe to those who call evil good" -- Isaiah 5:20
Then came other issues -- sterilization, masturbation, abortion, fornication and cohabiting, homosexual activity and homosexual "marriage". One by one, Protestant communities have broken from Christian teaching and sided with the secular culture. Many Protestant communities do not accept all the aforementioned evils as good, of course, and some are making a valiant attempt to fight one or more of them. However, there is no guarantee that those denominations won't eventually accept other sexual sins in the same way they accepted contraception, sterilization and masturbation. A majority vote by church leaders could launch an unsuspecting Protestant from the Spirit of the Gospel right into the spirit of the age -- the Planned Parenthood age.
Look where you are standing. Unless you stand with the Catholic Church, you may already have one foot off the cliff.
How to guarantee that you'll stand firmly on the ground of moral Truth? Come back home to the Catholic Church.
For over two thousand years:
The Catholic Church has never taught that contraception is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that sterilization is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that masturbation is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that abortion is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that fornication is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that homosexual activity is a moral good, and she never will.
The moral teachings of the Church have never changed, and they never will.
Human sexuality is transcendent, life-giving and sacred, and the Catholic Church will teach that Truth till the last day.
Dear Protestant, a church with a changing morality is a church built on shifting sand. If you want to build your life and eternity on something solid, build it on the Rock of Peter. Don't be carried about by every wind of social change; come back to the Catholic Church and stand strong with us -- one united Body as Jesus intended.
America may not survive many more generations at the rate we are going, but the Church and her teachings will stand regardless, speaking the same Truths, undisturbed, till the end of time. Believe me, it's a really nice place to be in a storm. Extremely peaceful.
So, come on. You'll like it here, living in peace and joy and certainty. It's your rightful home anyway.
Come back to Holy Mother Church. It really is time.
Yeah, I remember reading that post myself.
Point well taken.
Horse hockey.
Maybe mainline Protestantism, but not Evangelicals.
And if it weren't for Catholics voting dem, Roe v. Wade would not have been passed.
Operation Rescue.
I know a Baptist pastor who was jailed for contempt of court for refusing to tell the judge he'd follow the restraining order to stay away from the abortion clinic.
So you agree that scripture is the only infallible source of what the apostles taught!. Yet you claim that scripture is not the only source of truth. Well, Paul said if anyone taught anything they didn’t teach it was to be considered “accursed’. With scripture the only infallible source of what the apostles taught, by your own admission, it leaves scripture as the sole source.
Exactly
“Nope...a follower of Christ.”
Then you should know that the Book of Mormon and Qur’an have no role to play here yet you bring them up. Why?
“Until I know how you define truth, I can’t answer your question.”
Now, that’s an evasion. No matter what someone’s understanding of truth is, and mine is the historic and standard one held by orthodox Christians (hence, you might not know of it), you should be able to answer the question because it isn’t about the definition of truth rather the Bible’s use. But you’ll probably continue to evade. You can’t do much else apparently.
“Catholics have tried to make part of Christianity, but as you correctly point out, there is nothing in the Bible on this.”
Make part of Christianity? I have no idea what you’re trying to say.
“So my question would be why do catholics pray to Mary when there isn’t any Biblical support on this?”
And that’s when my question becomes all the more important: “Where in the Bible does it say we should look only to the Bible for all truths?”
Sola scriptura, for instance, appears no where in scripture yet Protestants believe in it. The Prosperity Gospel appears no where in scripture but millions of Protestants believe in it. Sola fide appears only as a thing denounced in scripture yet all Protestants are taught formally believe in it. The Rapture is believed in by millions of Protestants yet there is no actual scriptural support for it - and yes I know of the verses that are SAID to be about it. Once-saved-always-saved is believed in by many Protestants yet there is no scriptural support for it at all. And yes I am familiar with all the verses said to be about it.
“Jesus was quoted on numerous occasions when confronting the devil or the pharisees....”it is written.””
Yes.
“If Christ is setting the example of searching the Word for answers.... that’s good enough for me.”
And you have failed again - and will continue to do so. I didn’t ask if Jesus is our model. Of course He is. But Jesus was dealing with people under the OLD TESTAMENT LAW. The New Testament would not be written for years and years yet. He used what many of them knew - the Old Testament. And when He spoke of people obeying the Pharisees when they sat on Moses’ seat appears exactly NO WHERE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. It had to be a tradition much like Matthew 2:23 which harkens back to prophets, but not to a single actual written source that says what the verse claims.
“I’ll ask one more time....are the quotes right?”
And I’ll direct you back to what I already said.
“They either or or they are not. Which is it?”
Check for yourself. Are you unable to use a search engine to reliable sources?
I don’t think you can defend much of what you say with scripture. Your responses are lacking substance or documentation. I much prefer someone who is at least conversant on scripture. The pathetic responses we get from you are rather dullard looking and I’ll just leave you to your dillusions.
972 After speaking of the Church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary. In her we contemplate what the Church already is in her mystery on her own "pilgrimage of faith," and what she will be in the homeland at the end of her journey. There, "in the glory of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity," "in the communion of all the saints,"516 The Church is awaited by the one she venerates as Mother of her Lord and as her own mother.
In the meantime the Mother of Jesus, in the glory which she possesses in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise she shines forth on earth until the day of the Lord shall come, a sign of certain hope and comfort to the pilgrim People of God.517
You know...we could always conclude by looking to Christ.
Rev.17
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Rev 18
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Maybe the Catholics and protestants are both in trouble.
And I’ll direct you back to what I already said.
which was a non-answer and an attack on the original poster.
>“They either or or they are not. Which is it?”<
Check for yourself. Are you unable to use a search engine to reliable sources?
Again...a second refusal to answer the question. You must be afraid to answer. That's all I need to know about you.
You just challenged me to show where you said there was any other infallible source for what the apostles taught! Well, you didn’t and you can’t. So that leaves Sola Scriptura by your own admission whether you know it or not.
You must be a liberal dimocrat. You're answers are just like theirs.
They do that too.
Also, do you have any proof she’s actually dead?
Those who put their faith in those organizations surely are.
You didn’t need to ping yourself to post 91 as you wrote it.
Why would I care?
Sterilization, masturbation, abortion, fornication and cohabiting, homosexual activity and homosexual “marriage”. “
And homosexual priests (cough)
It's Jesus we need. Not a church.
What saves us is HIM, not it.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
You can deny it all you want, but bowing down is bowing down and God forbids it in the Ten Commandments.
You just challenged me to show where you said there was any other infallible source for what the apostles taught! Well, you didn’t and you can’t. So that leaves Sola Scriptura by your own admission whether you know it or not.
Game, set, match to CynicalBear!
“Later, some of us actually do take college courses that teach us critical thinking, which includes avoiding argumentation based on things like non-sequiturs and ad hominem.”
When you locate some of those people send them my way. So far they have not shown up.
“Do all anti-Protestants start every debate by insulting the other person,”
No, but I often do - but I would not call myself anti-Protestant. If you feel insulted, I suggest you leave now.
“by first challenging their grasp of logic”
That has to happen because the lack thereof is so glaring.
“and then answering it with a lot irrelevancies and, frankly, gibberish?”
So pointing out tat your comment made no sense is “a lot irrelevancies and, frankly, gibberish”? Then we’re back to “challenging their grasp of logic”
“Here’s a logical lesson for you, my friend. Declaring a premise to be false is not, in fact, a refutation of the premise.”
And here’s another lesson: Declaring a premise to be false when it is obviously false renders a refutation of the premise unnecessary. If you feel otherwise, get used to it. Your premise was obviously false. Remember, I summarized your premise before you stated it and you did not deny that summary. I have seen that sort of nonsense too many times already. You didn’t even offer proof for your false premise (of course). I’m defending the truth while you’re posting false claims. I need not spend time posting refutations of things which are obviously false.
“Here’s another one for you to chew on, and then I’m done. I’ve better things to do than keep knocking chips off your shoulder.”
S-u-r-e. Here’s another lesson for you: when you debate someone and accuse them of doing or believing in something at least get that THING right. I completely and absolutely pinned you down on what your premise was - you didn’t even dispute it really. Notice that?
“Are you a priest?”
Doesn’t matter if I am. Doesn’t matter if I am not.
“Because if not, then you have no authority to debate me on the subject of sola scriptura using Thessalonians or any other scripture. Why? Because based on what I’ve observed in these threads, the reasoning (and I use the term loosely) of the anti-sola scriptura crowd is that to do so would be to utilize your own understanding of scripture, which is what you folks seem to find so offensive in Protestantism.”
Wow, another failure in logic. Here, let me set you straight: I, as a layperson, have every right to defend the truth. I have just as much right to do so as anyone who is ordained. Thus, since sola scriptura is heretical, and not orthodox, I have every right to defend the truth. In doing so I have violated not a single orthodox principle - including the interpretation of scripture.
“But hey, enjoy your feeling of superiority.”
I think only a person with a feeling of superiority would post that comment.
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