[af_vet_1981]

However, your comment to which I reacted did not suggest an honest disagreement by Elsie, but rather a written statement of direct, willful rejection of apostolic authority. Especially biting was the idea that there was intentional selectivity of belief based on "convenience." The assertion that Elsie knowingly rejected apostolic, and therefore divine authority, is a bridge too far, and is the inescapable falsity in your accusation. You can know what he/she affirms as a belief on these pages, but God alone is the judge of whether he/she has come by that belief honestly.

By the numbers
1. Elsie, who is of Wesley, volunteered that unsolicited information and asked that I show any errors in his/her denomination which I proceeded to do.
2. The Wesleyan Church makes a big deal out of ordaining women into all positions of ministry. It is one of their distinctives.
3. Local churches are organized into a network of districts with equal representation of clergy and laity at their annual conferences. Each has an elected administrator known as the district superintendent and has a district board of administration with both lay and clergy serving. National and multi-national networks are called general conferences with strong national leadership and meet every four years. The North American General Conference has one General Superintendent, Dr. Jo Anne Lyon. An ordained Wesleyan minister, Dr. Lyon is the founder of World Hope International, the official Christian relief and development partner of The Wesleyan Church.
4. The Wesleyan church votes to change their doctrines, as they just did on divorce (taking the Feminist view instead of the Scriptural view, and we are not talking civil divorce here, but rather New Testament divorce).
5. Wesleyan reasoning to ignore Paul's authority in 1 Timothy Chapter 2 taught here
6. It is convenient for the Wesleyan Church to ignore Paul, as their women already have the votes and exercise influence over Church doctrine; they are not going back to the Patriarchy which controlled the Church prior to their origin in Nineteenth Century and I think afsnco is correct, there will be more progressive changes to come.
7. Elsie was free to disavow himself of this tenet of his denomination when afsnco wrote "Every denomination that has engaged in the apostasy of women clergy has inevitably, inexorably thereafter engaged in the further apostasies of love for abortion and love for homosexuality. PCUSA being the latest example" but did not. Instead, Elsie wrote in almost immediate response "The bible PLAINILY says it's PAUL that won't allow women to teach: NOT Christ!!" Look at the capitialization. Look at the context. That is a willful denial of Paul's apostolic authority in the matter of the behavior and non-ordination of Christian women.
8. I understand Elsie upholding his denomination's insistence that women should be ordained to any and all offices in the church the same as a man, but it is a willful rejection of the apostolic authority of Paul in this area. In other areas where it is convenient to their doctrine and teaching, the Wesleyan Church upholds Paul's authority. In this area they deny it. It would be inconvenient for them to now oppose it as, the denomination has already chosen it, they don't have the votes to change it, and Elsie himself defends it anyway by claiming Christ did not say it, only Paul. Elsie has so far not addressed the other Wesleyan issues (divorce, abortion, and contraception) which Elsie asked me to raise with "The ONLY thing I 'recommended' was for you guys to SHOW it's error. "

[Elsie]

4.The Wesleyan church votes to change their doctrines, as they just did on divorce (taking the Feminist view {oh?} instead of the Scriptural view, and we are not talking civil divorce here, but rather New Testament divorce).

I'm sorry that we have no high sounding name like MAGISTERIUM or something like it; just North American General Conference.

I'm also sorry we don't have a process of getting ANNULMENTS instead of a divorce.

I'm also sorry that NONE of the stuff you've DISCOVERED has ANYTHING to do with a persons salvation.

[Elsie]

7.Elsie was free to disavow himself of this tenet of his denomination when afsnco wrote "Every denomination that has engaged in the apostasy of women clergy has inevitably, inexorably thereafter engaged in the further apostasies of love for abortion and love for homosexuality.

Do I have to respond to EVERYTHING someone ELSE says in these threads?

I guess my personal eyerolls, in the privacy of my own home are not good enough...

[Elsie]

That is a willful denial of Paul's apostolic authority in the matter of the behavior and non-ordination of Christian women.

And then there is that pesky letter found in Acts chapter 15...

[metmom]

Elsie, who is of Wesley, volunteered that unsolicited information and asked that I show any errors in his/her denomination which I proceeded to do.

Elsie, who you keep failing to courtesy ping when talking about him.

Elsie, who is of Jesus Christ.

This one sentence of yours shows so clearly what I keep saying about Catholics.

First off is that they cannot wrap their minds around the fact that we do not follow men, human leaders. And yet Catholics continually claim that we do that very thing. We follow Jesus.

Our identity is not in our denomination or who that denominations is named for, but our identity is in CHRIST, who died for us to save us from our sins. HE is the only one who can do that. No denomination has the power to save.

Which leads to the second point, that is that this is one of the primary reasons people do not share their denominational affiliation. The minute people do, Catholics, who LOVE their labels and will instantly pigeon hole anyone the minute they can, lay the whole weight of a denomination's teaching or practices on the shoulders of the individual and hold them accountable for the whole thing.

Than you for such a beautiful example of why not to share denominational affiliation.